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Old 06-21-2019, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Location: Happy Place
3,687 posts, read 1,863,297 times
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I retired from federal service in 2017 with 30+ years. Frankly, I think it is more who you know than what you know.

Veterans, military spouses, disabled, minority applicants have priority and you better have a college degree. Ability seemed to be of minimal importance where I worked. Over the years I training many folks who outranked me.

End of story.
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:48 PM
 
1,410 posts, read 794,770 times
Reputation: 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
Tnff went over the qualified thing above, it's mostly means you passed the HR list of things they are given, so they think you are qualified to perform the job, it doesn't say anything about you being "able" to actually perform it. the application is sent to the hiring manager who then review resume/ksa. The KSAs help determine this part. If the hiring manager like the KSAs, they will "refer" the list of those people back to HR to schedule interviews. Then the interviewer ask things beyond the KSAs (or more in depth, that are job specific to what they need).

Basically, HR doesn't determine if you are "qualified" for the job or not, it isn't up to them to decide. What they are determining is if the application is "qualified" or not to be passed on.

Asking for your "score" before then? Doesn't really matter much if you don't make it to the interview stage, because well you aren't really in the running for it until then.

A score by itself tells me next to nothing anyway.



Quote:

Getting to the interview is just making it to the starting line of the race. You haven't ran it yet so you can't say you were competitive yet or not.

if I can get to the interview I like my chances. I won't get hired every time but I will get hired.





Quote:
Though each agency has a different interpretation of how vet preference works as well. Basically blaming you not getting the job based on lack of vet points is a disservice to the actual "winners" efforts.

And its a disservice for Charli or anyone else to suggest that I blamed vets for anything. I never have and don't plan to start.
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:17 PM
 
6,838 posts, read 3,708,603 times
Reputation: 18073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
Not sure who you're talking to. I've been a federal contractor for many years but it doesn't help you get a federal job. (any more than other work experience).
Depends on the type of contractor and how the government where you work is organized. SETA and A&AS contractors are in the room and work right alongside government personnel. So they often get the opportunity to switch to the government side. They are a known quantity who have demonstrated performance. So that's one path to the gov is to first get on with a SETA or A&AS contractor. Though truth be told, gov usually can't match the pay and benefits they get from their parent company.
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:51 PM
 
3,960 posts, read 1,688,304 times
Reputation: 8040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
Yes, sorry to say this is it. I don't think people realize just how much competition exists out there. Especially when you consider the job's other aspects like location. For places people want to or decide they can afford to live competition will be that much more of a factor. Whenever I scan through C-D's relocation forums or job seeker classifieds you'd be amazed at what people insist they can't manage without.
Yes, once you get in and realize that the entry level jobs typically have people who are way above entry level, it makes a lot more sense. My position is available for people with very little experience, but of the new people hired in my office with me or after me, the newest person to the field had 3 years of experience. Many had at least 10 years of experience. I think there are some offices/positions that do tend to take less experienced folks, but in my area that is urban and has a lot of competition, there is no reason to take an entry level person. This area, while expensive, has state/local government that pays less than federal government with few raises, so federal jobs are quite appealing.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:50 PM
 
6,875 posts, read 7,267,992 times
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Some considerations:
-- Is the person willing to take away cut, just to get in?
-- Is the person willing to take any job, just to get in?
-- Is the person willing to relocate, just to get in?

I guess that depends on what the person's ultimate, long-term goal is.
(and, of course, whether s/he can afford to take a pay cut, doesn't mind doing work that might be "beneath them," or their skill set, or is in a position to relocate)

Sometimes a person just isn't in a position to do any of these, let alone more than one.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:31 PM
 
154 posts, read 70,881 times
Reputation: 301
I was hired 5 months ago, and started 4 months ago at the VA. Applied for about 50 positions on USAJobs. About midway through the process, I bit the bullet and hired a federal resume writer [$500] to assist me in making my resume fit the Fed Gov hiring process.


It helped, I did get more referrals, 4 interviews, and then the job. I am a vet, only 5 point preference, and over 55 too.
Hired as a GS -7 with no prior civil service experience.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:49 PM
 
1,410 posts, read 794,770 times
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I tend to forget that I was offered a temporary position 2 years ago, but I realized I wasn't going to be able to meet the physical demands and I had to turn it down because there was no way to accommodate me. I was referred for one other but that was the only interview I got.
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Old 06-22-2019, 01:41 AM
 
Location: on the wind
7,072 posts, read 2,899,892 times
Reputation: 23939
Quote:
Originally Posted by insulator_king View Post
I was hired 5 months ago, and started 4 months ago at the VA. Applied for about 50 positions on USAJobs. About midway through the process, I bit the bullet and hired a federal resume writer [$500] to assist me in making my resume fit the Fed Gov hiring process.


It helped, I did get more referrals, 4 interviews, and then the job. I am a vet, only 5 point preference, and over 55 too.
Hired as a GS -7 with no prior civil service experience.
Might be hard to pin your success on the resume writer, especially with all the reinvention, scrutiny, and Congressional attention the VA has been going through lately. It could have been right place-right time too.
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Old 06-22-2019, 06:05 AM
 
15 posts, read 3,604 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
How much information can I get about the referral and hiring process for specific federal positions? I keep getting "you qualify but were not referred" messages. Can I get copies of the scoring and ranks of myself and other applicants so that I can see where and why I am falling short? It seems like most of this should be public data.

If you were qualified, but not referred, that means you were not "highly qualified". You just met the basic requirements, and that is what they will tell you when you ask for rankings/scores. Some folks mentioned requesting the information under the FOIA, but I seriously doubt you will get much more than that.



Only highly qualified candidates are referred to the selecting officials. And if a bunch of highly qualified candidates are referred, the selecting officials usually impose/raise the qualifying standards to screen the candidates to a more manageable list to go through.


I once advertised for a civil engineering technician. We had over 400 applicants. Of the 400, maybe 300 were qualified, and of the 300, maybe 75 or so were highly qualified. Well, I was not going to go through all 75 resumes, so I screened them with additional criteria until I got a list of 20 or so candidates. Then I went through the resumes and chose 5 or 6 to interview.


If possible, get to know some one in the office you want to get on with who can vouch for you, because selecting officials can do a "name select" from the list of qualified candidates. Until then, you are a faceless name on a very long list.


Another way to get on is to apply to a location that most would consider undesirable where many candidates would not apply. If you get on, spend the minimum time there and then try to transfer.


And on your resume, emphasize how you EXCEED the KSAs. No time to be shy.
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Old 06-22-2019, 06:15 AM
 
15 posts, read 3,604 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserterer View Post
Not sure who you're talking to. I've been a federal contractor for many years but it doesn't help you get a federal job. (any more than other work experience).

I disagree with this. If we had a contract employee who we liked and who came to us wanting to convert to a federal position, we would tailor the vacancy announcement to fit them to get them on board. Most of the time it worked. The only times it did not is if we got someone referred off the "stopper list" (a current federal employee who was getting RIFed somewhere else). But we could get around that by simply cancelling the announcement, waiting a decent amount of time for that someone to get off the stopper list, and then re-advertise the vacancy announcement.


One thing I would like to mention is if you have previous experience, where you start on the GS scale is negotiable. For example, when I hired some GS-13 engineers, they requested a higher starting salary than a Step 1. They showed me their salary history; one I started off as a Step 10, the other a Step 8.

Last edited by WankelThis; 06-22-2019 at 06:28 AM..
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