U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-23-2019, 06:52 PM
 
15,157 posts, read 4,003,357 times
Reputation: 10957

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
None that I'm aware.

I thought AI was supposed to ruin everything..
Well, in a sense it already has!

Having been into tech (Ham Radio and more) since...many decades ago, and having come from a family that was in manufacturing, the "revolution" started in the 1960's.

The problem is with "naming conventions". The same thing happened with the internet - it's a network, not "cyberspace". Nothing magical....

ALL of the modern advances in machinery and control are, in a sense, AI. We were training welding Robots back before 1990. Machines that built some of the aircraft parts for WWII were very highly automated and could turn out wing structures like baseball bats (exactly as one author describes the process!).....

AI, or "artificial intelligence" is the continuation of the productivity curve based on cheaper computing power. But these forces have been at work strongly for 50 years+.

THIS is why productivity has tripled - while wages are stagnant - since the 1960's. I'd say that has "ruined everything" pretty well. I mean, if the workers don't get a penny more but produce 3X as much, where are the other two "units" going? Well, we all know the answer to that question.

"cyberspace" and "AI" (computing) has also enhanced outsourcing and offshoring more than ever before, resulting in "ruin" for many American workers and families.

The thumbscrews have been turned so tightly that people don't even know how bad it is. This is due to cheap debt and easy credit and other factors.

I remember back in the mid-90's when Clinton and the GOP "reformed" welfare. One of the financial shows had a story about a woman who took advantage of the advanced job training in order to try and support herself. She learned Photoshop, which was a fairly big deal back in 1994 (today everyone knows it!). She went and got a job for $14 an hour (that would be equiv. to $21 or so today) and the show laid out, dollar by dollar, how she wabes not able to make it on that $14. At beast it was barely - and if she got sick or injured or lost the job for a few weeks or months, she'd be way behind the eight ball with no way to catch up.

Yet right here on this board we have people cheering about $11 or $13? It's fantastic....they have nothing to compare it to, so they think they are in 7th heaven.....

In 1974 - in low wage Middle TN, I made $5 an hour as a low-skilled laborer on a house framing site. I made $3.20 for "day labor" at Manpower....you simply cannot get lower wages then Manpower!

So, use an inflation calculator to see what those figures represent today:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com

So, the $5 is $26 an hour.
The 3.20 is $16.62
(no benefits of any kind with either...btw, just to be truthful here!)....

BUT, when you look at those figures and then assume at least some productivity gains going to the worker...plus inflation, you see why the wages being earned today are a joke!

In Florida, a CNA (working in nursing home, home visits, etc.) makes $11.17 an hour! Think about that.

Anyway, rant over. My point is that things are so bad that people don't even know how bad they are. Of course there are LOTS of jobs available for a price WAY lower than I made at Day Labor when I was 19.....

So, everything IS ruined. It's just that when you drop that lobster in cold water and warm it up slowly, he or she doesn't see what is happening until it is too late.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-23-2019, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,436 posts, read 2,759,563 times
Reputation: 16345
Job growth is up, but the fasted job growth is in low wage jobs. Education costs are up, so if you want to get the skills to get more than a low wage job, it's going to cost you. Or as I keep saying, if you can afford to go to college to get a degree, you're already making enough money so that you don't need the college in the first place.

Housing is way up. When I was making $2/hr minimum wage, I was renting a one bedroom apartment for $125 a month. In that area, the average apartment rent now is loosely about $800 a month, 6.4 times a much as it was then. Yet minimum wage is $7.25/hr, rising only 3.6 times as much then.

There's a reason people are working more and getting less for their money.

Minimum Wage Hasn't Been Raised For The Longest Time In History

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/minim...151448519.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2019, 08:48 PM
 
6,204 posts, read 6,361,382 times
Reputation: 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
We have over 20 openings right now, and Iíll be interviewing for 5 of them, in the $70-110k range with great benefits. These are to replace only 1 retirement, the other 4 people have all accepted higher paying jobs, 3 in our organization, one outside. There are plenty of good paying jobs, but they are filled with people moving up. Whether that ends up dropping down to create entry level openings is questionable. In our case, the least experience required is 3 years.
What industry is this? Has your business received a huge uptick in business? Where is this uptick coming from? What new market has opened up that requires more workers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
All industries are spurring new hiring. The job market is ablaze with countless opportunities for good and mediocre workers all over the place. Everyone who wants a job at any level can have one. Unemployment is at historic lows. Anyone who believes otherwise is just a nutty conspiracy theorist. Why? Because I said so.
But the demand for the business has to have gone up? Where is this demand coming from? Why changed to create this demand, and why this demand not there before?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
There are a lot of jobs open, and a lot of positions in need (it's pretty much impossible to argue with the fact that the job market is better today than it has been in decades). The base requirements are higher today, though. The days of comfortably staying at the same job for 30 years are over. Anyone who puts time in, puts in a little extra effort to continually learn new things and keep up with changing technology, etc. won't have trouble finding a job.
What new market opened up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
None that I'm aware.


I thought AI was supposed to ruin everything.


If you had ever bothered to read BLS job projections, 2 out of 3 jobs will be "created" by retiring Boomers though about 2030.



What's wrong with the Labor Force Participation Rate?

If you had ever bothered to read BLS labor force projection published in the 1990s along with economic papers published by people like Greg Mankiw, then you would know everyone was predicting lower Labor Force Participation Rates due to changing demographics, namely, Boomers retiring.

It's not a State secret, and everyone knew it decades in advance, so it shouldn't be a shock to anyone even remotely informed.

I sure hope you don't expect my 84-year old father to get a job just so you can feel good about the Labor Force Participation Rate.
So this is really just filling in leftover spots left behind by people retiring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Job growth is up, but the fasted job growth is in low wage jobs. Education costs are up, so if you want to get the skills to get more than a low wage job, it's going to cost you. Or as I keep saying, if you can afford to go to college to get a degree, you're already making enough money so that you don't need the college in the first place.

Housing is way up. When I was making $2/hr minimum wage, I was renting a one bedroom apartment for $125 a month. In that area, the average apartment rent now is loosely about $800 a month, 6.4 times a much as it was then. Yet minimum wage is $7.25/hr, rising only 3.6 times as much then.

There's a reason people are working more and getting less for their money.

Minimum Wage Hasn't Been Raised For The Longest Time In History

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/minim...151448519.html
But why the uptick in low wage service jobs? Why they building more Walmarts, and Home Depots all of a sudden?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2019, 11:56 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
29,772 posts, read 54,408,375 times
Reputation: 31072
Here are a few examples of big hiring increases, in addition to the growth in tourism here, and growth in cruise ships to Alaska:



Expedia is moving to a much larger facility and expects to go from 4,500 to 8,000 workers there.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/4500-expedia-employees-are-coming-to-interbay-in-seattle-how-will-the-company-avoid-a-traffic-mess/


SeaTac airport is expanding to meet huge increases in demand, that takes more people.
https://www.seattlebusinessmag.com/b...edented-growth


T-Mobile, headquartered nearby in Bellevue, WA will add 11,000 more employees by 2024.
https://www.t-mobile.com/news/new-t-...-creating-jobs


Construction is still strong with new housing and office developments continuing.
https://www.seattlebusinessmag.com/r...-office-market



Generally good outlook for jobs here, if you can make enough to afford the rent.

https://www.seattletimes.com/explore...iss-the-party/



Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,436 posts, read 2,759,563 times
Reputation: 16345
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post

But why the uptick in low wage service jobs? Why they building more Walmarts, and Home Depots all of a sudden?
I haven't seen a new Home Depot built in years. But if there are, if could be because so many people can't afford to hire someone to work on their house and attempt to do it themselves if they can.

We're a consumer driven economy. In order for our economy to benefit everyone, people need to spend money. If there's little to no money to spend, our economy stalls.

Look at how we're divided moneywise. There is very little middle class anymore and people today either have a ton of money or they have very little money. The people in the 1% drive the markets that build yachts, expensive houses, private airplanes, high end restaurants.

Guess what the people with little money drive? Walmarts, Targets, dollar stores, McDonald's.

The people who want to make money will go where the money is. If money can't be found in the middle class adding a room onto their house, buying a trailer for a summer vacation, or giving their kids piano lessons, then they'll go to where the money is being spent and tailor their businesses to those things.

We're not really spending money today in the traditional sense. Those in the 1% may be, but not too many others because they have no extra money for spending. Their money is going to housing, food, transportation, and utilities. There is very little room for any extras.

Look at it this way: If almost everyone in a town is spending half their income on rent or housing, then that means the population of a town is really supporting only one industry. And it's supporting that one industry at the cost of not supporting many others. In the past when housing was low, maybe people did remodeling, bought a pool for the summer, gave the kids horseback lessons, bought a new car, treated themselves out to a dinner, movie, or a concert because their money wasn't tied up in paying for housing costs.

Many people can't afford any of those things now. They keep the old car when they might have bought a new one. They take a week off for vacation and grill in the back yard IF they even take a week off. They might paint a room instead of remodel it.

And the businesses that used to supply lumber and new cars and trailers start slowly going out of business which means in smaller towns, there's nothing left but Walmarts and fast food.

Last edited by rodentraiser; 06-24-2019 at 04:26 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2019, 05:06 PM
 
6,204 posts, read 6,361,382 times
Reputation: 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
I haven't seen a new Home Depot built in years. But if there are, if could be because so many people can't afford to hire someone to work on their house and attempt to do it themselves if they can.

We're a consumer driven economy. In order for our economy to benefit everyone, people need to spend money. If there's little to no money to spend, our economy stalls.

Look at how we're divided moneywise. There is very little middle class anymore and people today either have a ton of money or they have very little money. The people in the 1% drive the markets that build yachts, expensive houses, private airplanes, high end restaurants.

Guess what the people with little money drive? Walmarts, Targets, dollar stores, McDonald's.

The people who want to make money will go where the money is. If money can't be found in the middle class adding a room onto their house, buying a trailer for a summer vacation, or giving their kids piano lessons, then they'll go to where the money is being spent and tailor their businesses to those things.

We're not really spending money today in the traditional sense. Those in the 1% may be, but not too many others because they have no extra money for spending. Their money is going to housing, food, transportation, and utilities. There is very little room for any extras.

Look at it this way: If almost everyone in a town is spending half their income on rent or housing, then that means the population of a town is really supporting only one industry. And it's supporting that one industry at the cost of not supporting many others. In the past when housing was low, maybe people did remodeling, bought a pool for the summer, gave the kids horseback lessons, bought a new car, treated themselves out to a dinner, movie, or a concert because their money wasn't tied up in paying for housing costs.

Many people can't afford any of those things now. They keep the old car when they might have bought a new one. They take a week off for vacation and grill in the back yard IF they even take a week off. They might paint a room instead of remodel it.

And the businesses that used to supply lumber and new cars and trailers start slowly going out of business which means in smaller towns, there's nothing left but Walmarts and fast food.
So then with all you just said, why did we ever have high unemployment? What you describes reminds of the situation we had during recession, and I dont that has changed much. Especially that bit with the town supporting one industry. RE has not gotten cheaper no doubt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2019, 08:30 PM
 
2,419 posts, read 687,207 times
Reputation: 3394
Mcjobs and sales jobs on the low end.

Software developers on the high end.

Pretty much nothing else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 11:14 AM
 
82 posts, read 14,668 times
Reputation: 81
Despite the naysayers here and elsewhere - I respectfully disagree with several points.

Businesses that are growing and hiring are easy to see.

One example of many: Number of New Housing Starts has doubled in the last 10 years. Not all at once, re: recovery, but a gradual slow climb. Twice as many new homes means 2x electricians, plumbers, roofers, etc.

2x as many roofers means we need more lumber, and more shingles, and the rest, and so those sources are booming too. That means the local diner doubled its hours - and employees.

Don't like houses?

The world-population is ever growing, so if you sell something outside the USA - your business is booming - like mine.

How can you get a job here at $20/hr? Show up on time, make yourself presentable, fix the typos on your resume, pass a drug test, and at least appear mildly interested in the task at hand. I'm about 1 in 10 on that score for interviewees.

Don't like STEM? College not for you? Hate teaching? Don't want to learn a trade? Not an entrepreneur? Too proud to work for tips? Fear joining the military? Think public service (Fire/EMT/Police) is not worthwhile?
Then, yep. No jobs for you. Sorry. "All the available jobs suck, that's why unemployment numbers look good but mean nothing."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 11:49 AM
 
Location: NYC
12,908 posts, read 8,735,729 times
Reputation: 14156
I estimate there are probably 30-40k Uber drivers in my state. You can make $20/hr if you know what you're doing and pick up fares at busy areas and times. But it isn't an easy job as most people think. The good thing is that you can drive whenever you want to and call it a night whenever you want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 01:31 PM
 
10,058 posts, read 4,654,843 times
Reputation: 15286
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
But why the uptick in low wage service jobs? Why they building more Walmarts, and Home Depots all of a sudden?
blame "equality" movement, everyone needs to be equal so the competitive jobs became "easier" so everyone could do them... but easier also means why pay more for it if all they do is push buttons?

none the harder/complicated jobs aren't low wages

schools taught people they can do anything, well yes, when the computer does most of the work and they just stand around watching it
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top