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Old 06-25-2019, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,436 posts, read 2,759,563 times
Reputation: 16345

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
So then with all you just said, why did we ever have high unemployment? What you describes reminds of the situation we had during recession, and I dont that has changed much. Especially that bit with the town supporting one industry. RE has not gotten cheaper no doubt.

My comment about a community supporting one industry, housing, was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But it's also spot on in a way. Think about a community spending half its income on housing and then think about what would happen if those housing costs were cut by half. Think about the benefits to other businesses if people could start spending more of their money in their community on something besides their housing costs.

As I said, we're a consumer driven economy. Businesses only stay in business when people buy things from them. When we don't buy, companies go out of business and they let go of the people working for them. When multiple businesses go under all at the same time, there are hundreds of thousands of people looking for jobs all at the same time - jobs that don't exist because the businesses don't exist because they can't make any money because nobody has any money to spend because they're not working. All those people who used to work as realtors, secretaries, or car salesmen, for example, are now competing with other people to get jobs in fast food or convenience stores, just to have a job. And what if those places weren't hiring? Result: high unemployment.

We had the recession of 2008 is why we had such high unemployment. Watch The Big Short. That explains a lot about how and why that recession happened.

It doesn't take much to knock out a whole industry. Steel collapsed, manufacturing went overseas, and now we have the floods in the Midwest that are going to be knocking out the corn crop this year. The majority of that corn being raised goes to feed beef cattle, so cattle ranchers will be paying more for feed (and raising beef prices) or getting rid of their cattle which means getting rid of the employees who tend that cattle. And this isn't just one small farm. It's the entire Midwest.

What if the government quit giving people food stamps? Do you have any idea how many supermarkets and grocery stores would go out of business and how many people would lose their jobs? Quite a few and the rest would take a huge loss because people who use food stamps are a substantial portion of grocery shoppers. That's not what it should be, but it's a fact.

Housing has gone down in some areas. Some areas still haven't recovered from the recession and there are people today still paying more on their mortgages than their house is worth.

In other areas, like California, housing is still high because there are still people there with money who can afford to buy. Many people buying houses in California are foreign investors from China, for example. Many of the houses they've bought in the Bay Area are now sitting empty because the buyers are just waiting for the market to go up again.

I personally think housing in California is still inflated and wages have been inflated to match. Problem is, what it would take to make the housing market in California lose, for example, half a million or more on each house, would be a disaster that would wreck the rest of the US.

Last edited by rodentraiser; 06-25-2019 at 02:29 PM..
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,895 posts, read 14,224,806 times
Reputation: 16081
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
There's a reason people are working more and getting less for their money.

Minimum Wage Hasn't Been Raised For The Longest Time In History
That has nothing to do with anything.

Just because a Supreme Court stacked and threatened by FDR said Labor was Interstate Commerce doesn't make it true.

The federal government doesn't have any business setting a minimum wage and in spite of your claims, States, counties and municipalities -- all of whom have the legal authority to set a minimum wage -- have increased the minimum wage.

The minimum wage in Ohio has been greater than the federal minimum wage for years and years.

Apparently, you're incapable of comprehending the truth and reality that the Cost-of-Living varies greatly across the US.

Your government knows that to be true, because HUD recognizes it.

Your Cost-of-Living varies so greatly across the US that a single retiree receiving $1,201/month in Social Security benefits earns too much money to qualify for HUD Section 8 housing in many areas of the US.

Meanwhile, another single retiree receiving the maximum Social Security benefit of $2,788/month, plus a pension of $1,878/month, for a total of $4,666/month qualifies for HUD Section 8 housing in some areas of the US.

We can use the actual data:

$56,000 - $14,400 = $41,600

or express it as an hourly wage rate:

$26.92/hour - $6.92/hour = $20/hour


What are you going to do, split the difference?

Then you would still whine.

Setting the minimum wage at $27/hour would unjustly enrich Millions, while setting it at $6.95/hour would not benefit Millions.

The best thing for the federal government to do is repeal the minimum wage law and let the States handle it.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Southern California
303 posts, read 325,357 times
Reputation: 394
We need a good dose of communism.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:28 PM
 
2,419 posts, read 687,207 times
Reputation: 3394
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
Despite the naysayers here and elsewhere - I respectfully disagree with several points.

Businesses that are growing and hiring are easy to see.
Yes, they're hiring.

The job ads all want experience. Recent grads and career changers are locked out of this "great job market"

And for those that don't require experience, they are Mcjobs and sales jobs.

Quote:
How can you get a job here at $20/hr? Show up on time, make yourself presentable, fix the typos on your resume, pass a drug test, and at least appear mildly interested in the task at hand. I'm about 1 in 10 on that score for interviewees.
Without experience, they're not getting that job.

Except for Mcjobs and sales jobs, there are virtually no entry level jobs that require no experience.

Quote:
Don't like STEM?
STEM has 11 million people working outside of STEM. STEM jobs are outsourced and people get laid off to be replaced by H1B visa holders.

Quote:
College not for you?
Except for Mcjobs and sales jobs, there are virtually no entry level jobs that require no experience. So how do you expect a college grad with no experience to get a job?

Quote:
Hate teaching?
Requires a license and specialized education. Not something your typical college grad can get into.

Quote:
Don't want to learn a trade?
Apprenticeships are hard to find. Despite the non-stop whining about "people don't want to learn a trade" - one cannot get a job in the trades without an apprenticeship.

Quote:
Not an entrepreneur?
Requires money which people don't have.

Quote:
Fear joining the military?
Requires youth and fitness. Either one missing, game over.

Quote:
Think public service (Fire/EMT/Police) is not worthwhile?
Unless one is a Veteran and gets Veteran's preference, they're not getting that government job. In addition fire/EMT/Police are not the only public sector jobs out there, but the Vets get first dibs on them.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:31 PM
 
2,419 posts, read 687,207 times
Reputation: 3394
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmexman View Post
We need a good dose of communism.
Nope.

Big government = more cronies enriched at your and my expense. No thanks.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:56 AM
 
82 posts, read 14,668 times
Reputation: 81
Wow.

If you're looking for a job with zero experience, zero college education, zero new ideas, zero cash, without being physically fit and mentally young, that pays $25/Hour or more - well, yep, you probably will fail.

I hate to say it - I'm not taking sides - but that describes a UAW job perfectly.

There's another post going on around here about a new grad with a job paying $50K and wants to quit because no one will eat lunch with him.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:49 PM
 
2,419 posts, read 687,207 times
Reputation: 3394
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
I hate to say it - I'm not taking sides - but that describes a UAW job perfectly.
Which is being replaced by robots.
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Old 06-30-2019, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,436 posts, read 2,759,563 times
Reputation: 16345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That has nothing to do with anything.

Just because a Supreme Court stacked and threatened by FDR said Labor was Interstate Commerce doesn't make it true.

The federal government doesn't have any business setting a minimum wage and in spite of your claims, States, counties and municipalities -- all of whom have the legal authority to set a minimum wage -- have increased the minimum wage.

The minimum wage in Ohio has been greater than the federal minimum wage for years and years.

Apparently, you're incapable of comprehending the truth and reality that the Cost-of-Living varies greatly across the US.

Your government knows that to be true, because HUD recognizes it.

Your Cost-of-Living varies so greatly across the US that a single retiree receiving $1,201/month in Social Security benefits earns too much money to qualify for HUD Section 8 housing in many areas of the US.

Meanwhile, another single retiree receiving the maximum Social Security benefit of $2,788/month, plus a pension of $1,878/month, for a total of $4,666/month qualifies for HUD Section 8 housing in some areas of the US.

We can use the actual data:

$56,000 - $14,400 = $41,600

or express it as an hourly wage rate:

$26.92/hour - $6.92/hour = $20/hour


What are you going to do, split the difference?

Then you would still whine.

Setting the minimum wage at $27/hour would unjustly enrich Millions, while setting it at $6.95/hour would not benefit Millions.

The best thing for the federal government to do is repeal the minimum wage law and let the States handle it.
The reason minimum wage is so out of whack is because of the cost of housing. If housing costs were comparable to what they were in 1975, I'd say the minimum wage of $7.25 an hour would be just fine.

What you're saying about the differences across the country is the reason I advocate that minimum wage be set by county, so that it's an amount you'd get after paying 30% of your paycheck for the average cost of a one bedroom apartment in that county. So if the average amount of a one bedroom apartment was $1000 a month in County X for example, then minimum wage in that county should be $20.83 an hour because you're left with 70% of that amount after paying your $1000 rent.

If we tied minimum wage to housing instead of jobs and go up from there as per the job, minimum wage would definitely be a living wage.

Edit to add: sorry, didn't see how long ago this was posted.
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:34 PM
 
6,204 posts, read 6,361,382 times
Reputation: 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
Wow.

If you're looking for a job with zero experience, zero college education, zero new ideas, zero cash, without being physically fit and mentally young, that pays $25/Hour or more - well, yep, you probably will fail.

I hate to say it - I'm not taking sides - but that describes a UAW job perfectly.

There's another post going on around here about a new grad with a job paying $50K and wants to quit because no one will eat lunch with him.
And yet how many $25/hr jobs can there be for everyone?
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:01 AM
 
82 posts, read 14,668 times
Reputation: 81
That's kind of the point, isn't it? Expectations are unreasonable.

For the last fifty years or so, anyway - no one expected high school graduates to receive their diploma and the next day score a job
that paid the same as their dad's job, where he worked his way up either through experience or education.

Until very recently, you tempered your expectations financially with your expectations vocationally.

(Personally, I believe high schools do practically zero financial education, with regard to the "real" cost of things and what you can expect in your lifetime. If you're
a teacher in these topics, and I'm wrong about that, please say so.)
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