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Old 07-17-2019, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Pittsford, NY
538 posts, read 632,701 times
Reputation: 600

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
I returned to the U.S. after age 50 after being partners in an engineering and manufacturing company in Asia for twenty years. During that time I learned to speak fluent Mandarin Chinese and acquired eleven U.S. patents. I was head of engineering and brought many commercially successful products to market. I also acquired deep manufacturing experience in many of the industries which no longer exist in the U.S.

Before I left the U.S. I had no trouble getting jobs. After I returned - a far better engineer than when I left - I couldn’t even get an interview. Fortunately I didn’t need to work but wanted to because I love designing and manufacturing new products.

When it became clear that no company in the U.S. had any use for me any longer I just went back to my old supplier base in Asia and started designing and manufacturing new products on my own, minus the overhead of having to supervise others. I’m just going into production of my first new solo product and expect, based on testing, to.be going on the market with a cheaper, better product soon due to my low manufacturing costs and firm control of product quality.

That kind of sums it up well. In the US right now there is no respect for people who did things and are experienced. I can vouch for that, and the many top notch experienced design engineers I know out of work says it many times over. I keep thinking there is a turnaround in manufacturing, design, R&D, engineering, etc in US but it sure doesn't look like it. I can sort of tell the way they write what few job ads are out there that things are not yet serious in US as far as manufacturing, R&D, design, plus debugging (testing) products to get to market with some sense of quality, just look at Boeing who apparently forgot to debug/test till no issues with the 737Max plane. I have seen other fields turn around, but no sign of it right now in a serious way. I hear talk of manufacturing turn around in US, but so far just fluff talk mostly I think.

Last edited by TestEngr; 07-17-2019 at 06:56 AM..
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:22 PM
 
204 posts, read 57,707 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by See If This Works View Post
These are good things. We are all consumers and investors. We DEMAND the lowest price on a new TV and We DEMAND the highest return on investment from the company as it cuts costs.

And, business that DON'T lust after increasing profits will die.


True, but in the past there was a balance between profit expectations and employee job satisfaction.
Also 20 years ago management didn't make 100+ times more than the average employee.


Cost cutting has also caused many companies to die as well.


There has to be a balance between profits, innovation and quality. Companies seem to be forgetting those last two are employee driven.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:49 PM
 
2,516 posts, read 723,469 times
Reputation: 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by See If This Works View Post
It may be bad business, it may be myopic, it may lack long range thinking but those decisions have nothing to do with age discrimination.
If age is a reason the person is canned or not hired, then YES, it is age discrimination.


Quote:
Companies don't just roll up their sleeves and spit on their hands and say "What can we do to get rid of older people?"
No, some of them say "how do we avoid hiring older people without it being freaking obvious?" or "What can we do to get rid of older people without it being freaking obvious?"

Quote:
but discrimination is mostly a myth.
Let me guess, you live in SillyCon Valley? You couldn't have said something more out of touch unless you're competing with them.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:54 PM
 
2,516 posts, read 723,469 times
Reputation: 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by See If This Works View Post
Which is what the company has a duty to do for its shareholders.

Yes, a company should make profits, nothing wrong with that.

But what we see are CEO's and executives who make decisions that boost their bonus check at the long term success of the company.

This violates the duty to the shareholders.



Quote:
Originally Posted by See If This Works View Post
We DEMAND the lowest price on a new TV
We do this because we haven't gotten a raise in real terms since the 1970's. Where do you expect people to cut expenses if they're not allowed to get raises?


Quote:
and We DEMAND the highest return on investment from the company as it cuts costs.
Return on investment is not only about cutting costs. If the only way a company profits is by cutting costs that means they're not GROWING and that means the management is making big mistakes. Then they punish the rank and file with layoffs for following their orders. Looks like you don't believe that management should be responsible for their actions.
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:45 PM
 
1,600 posts, read 418,664 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthnry View Post
The Cadillac tax only applies to group plans. Companies that offer Cadillac plans offer them to all employees, not just employees over 50. It's true that coverage for employees over 50 is more expensive (can only be 3x the cost of a policy for a 21-year-old employee), but before the ACA there was no limit on how much more they could charge for older employees. So the ACA has actually made it more fair for older workers.
Group policies cost the same for ALL employees. It doesn't cost more for individual over 50 than it does for someone who is 21. This is true even before ACA. This is the point of a group policy they are covering a group of people. Your information is wrong.
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:59 PM
 
1,600 posts, read 418,664 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
No. It is official government position.

First, The Affordable Care Act has a provision for a "Cadillac tax" for health insurance policies which cost more than $12K a year. People over 50 have health insurance policies who cost big money, most over $12K a year. Do the math. Our own government made employing people over 50 more expensive on purpose.
Everyone in a group policy costs the same. That is the point of a group policy. There is no special extra cost based on an individual's age with employer group policies. An employer can have different classifications for employees and offer different health plans, but they aren't based on age. They are based on the employee classifications in the company. For example, you can offer a group plan to part-time employers as a classification, another class would be full-time employees and another could be a class for officers and directors for the company. None of these are age based at all. It might be the officers and directors are older, but there is no magic number to charge a different insurance rate for those 50 and over.
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Old 07-18-2019, 01:42 AM
 
154 posts, read 96,021 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Everyone in a group policy costs the same. That is the point of a group policy. . . . . .
What Iíve heard is that if a group incurs higher health care costs (eg. older employees requiring expensive treatments) that it raises future premiums for that group. Any truth to that belief?
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:49 AM
 
254 posts, read 69,593 times
Reputation: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngr View Post
That kind of sums it up well. In the US right now there is no respect for people who did things and are experienced. I can vouch for that, and the many top notch experienced design engineers I know out of work says it many times over. I keep thinking there is a turnaround in manufacturing, design, R&D, engineering, etc in US but it sure doesn't look like it. I can sort of tell the way they write what few job ads are out there that things are not yet serious in US as far as manufacturing, R&D, design, plus debugging (testing) products to get to market with some sense of quality, just look at Boeing who apparently forgot to debug/test till no issues with the 737Max plane. I have seen other fields turn around, but no sign of it right now in a serious way. I hear talk of manufacturing turn around in US, but so far just fluff talk mostly I think.
I was thinking about why I don't see startups staffed exclusively with older employees, especially engineers. If you have savings in the bank the risk would be low and the work might be interesting. Paying in equity would reduce cash needs and not mess with those on the ACA subsidy gravy train.

One theory I can think of is that industries that generated 30-40 year veterans with beaucoup domain knowledge have matured to the point that is practically impossible to break in at this point. That's certainly the case in anything I know about, it's all winnowing down to a few large firms with Asian manufacture and the ability to push their costs down due to volume.

I suppose that it would be possible to dig up some boutique specialty concept, so perhaps that's not enough of an excuse.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:39 PM
 
154 posts, read 96,021 times
Reputation: 256
My friends and acquaintances in the engineering field who started out getting excited over new ideas long ago went fallow and lost their risk tolerance at the same time. I learned that when I tried to interest them in some of my new ventures. I no longer even bother. They think I’m some sort of freak of nature because I’m still at it.
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:50 PM
 
2,516 posts, read 723,469 times
Reputation: 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Everyone in a group policy costs the same. That is the point of a group policy.

First, group policies premiums are based on the average age of the pool. If there are a lot of older people, and the average premium goes above 12K a year, Cadillac tax time!

Second, for smaller employers, they don't have "group policies" they have to buy an individual policy for you. And booyah, you're getting dinged on that Caddy tax.

"We regret to inform you that the position is already filled..."
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