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Old 07-01-2019, 11:36 AM
 
2,029 posts, read 857,321 times
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Just following orders is fine unless the orders are illegal or will violate your own sense of right and wrong, i.e. your conscience, if you have one. Many people don't have a conscience, or at least are not bound by it. One person might not think it's OK to screw someone out of their job or money because it's what the boss wants. Another may think it's perfectly OK to put a bullet in someone's head because it's what the boss wants. It's really an individual choice. The only attitude you can foster is your own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678 View Post
A person who says that tells me a couple of things:

1. That person is unable to think for themselves or question what they are told, simply if a person in charge said it, it must be true and the right thing to do.

2. They don’t want accountability if they do something bad or wrong.


We need to foster an attitude of constantly questioning all authority and seeing whether it is righteous and justified or not. Blind obedience only benefits those in charge.


Thoughts?
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:57 AM
 
948 posts, read 439,697 times
Reputation: 1561
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
OP, Google oppositional defiant disorder.
If you would’ve read further, you’d see that this “disease” is only diagnosed in people under 18, so it doesn’t apply to me.

Two, you’re coming at me with the assumption that all authority is inherently justified, which it isn’t. Authority is nothing more than who can enforce their will over others, and is not inherently or automatically deserving of respect.

I’m truly sorry that you’re fundamentally incapable of thinking for yourself, or seeing that those in charge aren’t perfect.

PS, I think it’s laughable to try and label anyone who questions authority as having a disease. IMO, just another way to weasel out of having an actual conversation with them or proving them wrong. Just an attempt to dismiss them outright, without acknowledging that what they’re saying might be true.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:59 AM
 
948 posts, read 439,697 times
Reputation: 1561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
I agree, if taken with a very heavy grain of salt.

Many times you, the employee don't have all the facts and details (and don't need to know them) behind a decision. It isn't productive to have to explain all the details to everyone involved. Don't use this attitude as an excuse to not listen to/argue with your boss on every decision. They often have more information than you do.
If I question why were doing things a certain way, I expect a clear, well thought out, intelligent answer, not ďbecause I said soĒ. Even if I donít agree with their reasoning, Iíll at least respect that decision. I do not respect decisions made on blind emotion or someone on a power trip just barking out orders.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:02 PM
 
44 posts, read 95,820 times
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In an employment setting you will lose your job if you do not follow orders. You can refuse an order only if it violates a law or it presents physical harm. That's life. Isn't it? Don't like it? Start your own business. Allowing your employees to do what they want should make you a success in no time.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,561 posts, read 3,001,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abigail View Post
In an employment setting you will lose your job if you do not follow orders. You can refuse an order only if it violates a law or it presents physical harm.
That's more or less the question/discussion here; we're not talking about being asked to do business tasks you don't happen to like.

Quote:
That's life. Isn't it? Don't like it? Start your own business. Allowing your employees to do what they want should make you a success in no time.
And you can have them go burn down your competition, too! Win!
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:57 PM
 
1,853 posts, read 713,275 times
Reputation: 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678 View Post
A person who says that tells me a couple of things:

1. That person is unable to think for themselves or question what they are told, simply if a person in charge said it, it must be true and the right thing to do.

2. They donít want accountability if they do something bad or wrong.


We need to foster an attitude of constantly questioning all authority and seeing whether it is righteous and justified or not. Blind obedience only benefits those in charge.


Thoughts?
"Just following orders" was definitely me at most of the jobs that I held. Why?

1. You were not supposed to think for yourself outside of the technical aspects of doing your job. You accepted the corporate culture and the directives of management, did not complain and did your job. Management didn't like complainers, troublemakers, and people with less than stellar work ethics. Many people who complained found themselves without a job. Being a "Yes Man" or "Yes Woman" was the only way to go if you wanted to keep your job. I did my own thinking outside the workplace, not in it.

2. I did not want to be accountable for my actions and always sought someone higher than me to take the fall in case the decision led to unpleasant consequences. The companies did not take it kindly when things didn't work out. Pure self-preservation. Employees who took the bull by the horns and made difficult decisions on their own were frequently punished or fired if their decisions did not work out.

So in my corporate adventures, the moral of the story is don't make waves, don't complain, work hard, and be sure to cover your a** with someone else's and let them explain what went wrong to management. If you want to keep your job that is. If you are an unbridled free spirit, then you will have to find a company willing to put up with that.

So I am just following orders and not complaining.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:00 PM
 
2,029 posts, read 857,321 times
Reputation: 5027
You don't have to think authority is justified to go along with it, or that those in authority are perfect or even intelligent or just. Most people do it out of a need to survive and thrive in society. If you think for yourself you may conclude that there's no way to change anyone's mind but your own. You may conclude that you really must pick your battles in order to win any of them. You may conclude that most things are not worth fighting over, and that the turtle beats the hare in the fable, and often in life as well.
It's no longer politically correct to say or even think so, but 60 years ago when I was a kid there was a saying that to be any good, children and horses had to be broken. For our generation there was a lot of truth in that and people followed the rules and made a satisfying life for themselves. We kids fought each other like gladiators but learned not to fight with adults in positions of authority over us, like teachers and bosses, or else get expelled or fired. That attitude still is pervasive in government, law enforcement and corporations. The rebels get weeded out and become outcasts. This is society's message and there are enough people in prisons and homeless and jobless to serve as concrete examples to keep the rest of us in line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678 View Post
If you would’ve read further, you’d see that this “disease” is only diagnosed in people under 18, so it doesn’t apply to me.

Two, you’re coming at me with the assumption that all authority is inherently justified, which it isn’t. Authority is nothing more than who can enforce their will over others, and is not inherently or automatically deserving of respect.

I’m truly sorry that you’re fundamentally incapable of thinking for yourself, or seeing that those in charge aren’t perfect.

PS, I think it’s laughable to try and label anyone who questions authority as having a disease. IMO, just another way to weasel out of having an actual conversation with them or proving them wrong. Just an attempt to dismiss them outright, without acknowledging that what they’re saying might be true.

Last edited by bobspez; 07-01-2019 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:25 PM
 
948 posts, read 439,697 times
Reputation: 1561
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotPutFX View Post
Jimmy I know you're a mechanic and have a little experience but it might be helpful to state the sorts of "orders" you're getting so riled up about constantly. I can't picture anything in your world that would engender the sort of self-righteousness and defiance you exhibit quite frequently.
My main issue in my old shop was being told things can be done faster by someone who had NO CLUE how to do my job. Iím not going to rush through a job and not do it properly because some idiot doesnít understand that doing quality work takes time.

You cannot rush through something and still do it right IMO. You can be efficient in how you work to eliminate things that waste time, but a job still has X number of steps in order to be completed properly, period. They werenít giving me the amount of time needed, and I wasnít hesitant to tell them their demands were unreasonable if they still wanted quality work. They didnít care about quality, though, it was all about quantity.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:35 PM
 
11,118 posts, read 8,523,617 times
Reputation: 28059
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678 View Post
If you wouldíve read further, youíd see that this ďdiseaseĒ is only diagnosed in people under 18, so it doesnít apply to me.

Two, youíre coming at me with the assumption that all authority is inherently justified, which it isnít. Authority is nothing more than who can enforce their will over others, and is not inherently or automatically deserving of respect.

Iím truly sorry that youíre fundamentally incapable of thinking for yourself, or seeing that those in charge arenít perfect.

PS, I think itís laughable to try and label anyone who questions authority as having a disease. IMO, just another way to weasel out of having an actual conversation with them or proving them wrong. Just an attempt to dismiss them outright, without acknowledging that what theyíre saying might be true.
Working and employment just isn't that deep to me.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:46 PM
 
948 posts, read 439,697 times
Reputation: 1561
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Working and employment just isn't that deep to me.
Think about it beyond the scope of work and employment and to the broad category of authority in general.

Oh wait, Iím sure youíll still rattle off some nonsense as to why authority is always justified, right?
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