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Old 07-03-2019, 07:58 PM
 
6,878 posts, read 3,741,057 times
Reputation: 18149

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678 View Post
If I wouldíve said I was 54 instead would that make me more credible? Because if youíre young you canít possibly know anything at all right? And the person thatís older always knows more, right? You probably think the guy thatís changed tires for 30 years is smarter than me just because heís older. ....
Nah, I'd never think someone who's 54 could be smarter than you. By that age he's most likely learned how much he doesn't know. But someone at 24 knows everything because he hasn't yet learned the breadth of his ignorance. The older we get, the less we all know. If you're really smart, in 30 years you'll be as dumb as the rest of us.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:47 PM
 
8,985 posts, read 8,133,403 times
Reputation: 19505
The work world has 3 ways of doing anything:

1---The right way.

2---The wrong way.

3---The company way.....Which is.....The company way, or the highway.

They operate under the GOLDEN RULE....which is .....The one who has the gold makes the rules.
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:56 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,191 posts, read 16,673,114 times
Reputation: 22705
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678 View Post
A person who says that tells me a couple of things:

1. That person is unable to think for themselves or question what they are told, simply if a person in charge said it, it must be true and the right thing to do.

2. They donít want accountability if they do something bad or wrong.


We need to foster an attitude of constantly questioning all authority and seeing whether it is righteous and justified or not. Blind obedience only benefits those in charge.


Thoughts?
Depends on what 'just following orders' leads to. If it means that you have to make Widget A differently then - ok. IF it means you are a Nazi soldier killing people well then that's another.


When I was younger - I did work for a company who encouraged questioning authority; due to the work we did they felt we had to be tough and argumentative in order to survive. We questioned EVERYTHING; I flat out refused to do things that I felt were wrong or bordered on wrong. And that company appreciated that attitude. (Looking back I do feel a bit sorry for my manager, but I learned from him).


THEN I went to work for Company B and they most certainly did NOT value that attitude so I really had to tone it down to stay employed. You just kind of have to . .. put your brain away for a bit and do what you are told even if you think deep down that you are being given bad advice. In my work, legalities matter and we can be sued, etc. I just made up my mind that I would follow orders as long as it didn't hurt anyone and if I went down for it - well, I wasn't going down alone.


I'm maybe 4 years away from retirement (hopefully 2) and I just don't agonize about it anymore. Sometimes I'll just ignore something my mgr tells me to do if I know it's wrong. She's usually ok with it because she knows I know what I'm doing.


Long story short - it depends on where you work; what kind of attitude they foster; AND the nature of what you are being asked to do.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:39 PM
 
1,721 posts, read 565,946 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Wow. OP wants more control over his actions as a mechanic and we are comparing to the Nuremberg trials!

Jimmy, you sound like a PITA employee. As a manager, I am not interested in having in depth discussions with every employer over every directive and expectation. It isn't because I don't have good reasons, it is because I don't have enough time to engage in complex discussions over every difference of opinion.

I agree with you to a point, in that there are right ways and wrong ways to do things. Sometimes mechanical problems take time. However, you also have to understand that running a shop requires overhead, and if enough business is not flowing through it, the bills don't get paid. Sometimes those things are in conflict with one another, that is just life.

Following simple instructions from your boss isn't always a life and death matter of principle. Sometimes it just isn't worth it to argue, from either person's viewpoint. Don't sweat the small stuff.
This, basically. I made a series of decisions on a project recently that you'd have to have about 3 years of background, and understand what's going on in the company from a long term strategic perspective to really understand. If I sat down and explained it to someone from scratch, it'd take easily hours to get through it all.

Many programmers and analysts involved in the project aren't happy with certain parts of the project, given there is a much better technical solution in the short term. I don't have time to spend hours explaining the detail to every one of them, and frankly, they don't all need to know the details at that level. They have to trust I know what I'm doing, and have to respect the decisions being made even without knowing all the details.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:44 PM
 
3,778 posts, read 2,136,940 times
Reputation: 10308
Quote:
Originally Posted by sas318 View Post
If you follow orders, you are obedient, but also seen as dumb. Your boss will NOT think of you when considering a raise or giving you more responsibility. You don't use your brain, after all. You simply do as you're told.

But on the other hand, if you question authority, i.e. your boss, you are seen as combative and argumentative. I had a boss tell me this, and this was one of the reasons he fired me.

So what the heck should an employee be?? Either way, you are screwed.


Depends on the company. Is it quality or crap? Most companies today are CRAP not quality. If you aren't an obedient mindless slave you may be fired/laid off as well. Most people that get promoted are rear kissers who stroke the idiot bosses ego. Not the guy who questions his "brilliance"
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Old 07-05-2019, 11:28 PM
 
1,573 posts, read 409,334 times
Reputation: 2915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678 View Post
A person who says that tells me a couple of things:

1. That person is unable to think for themselves or question what they are told, simply if a person in charge said it, it must be true and the right thing to do.

2. They donít want accountability if they do something bad or wrong.


We need to foster an attitude of constantly questioning all authority and seeing whether it is righteous and justified or not. Blind obedience only benefits those in charge.


Thoughts?
What are you talking as specially? Give an example. People put a process in place for a reason, so why would you not follow it?
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:46 PM
 
45 posts, read 96,211 times
Reputation: 72
The employer pays an employee to do a job. Not to be creative, and not to make mountains out of mole hills. Save your questioning of authority to any and all environments where they are not paying you to simply get a job done. I am an old lady now, but I am degreed in Business Administration and was a Labor Relations Mgr....representing management in dealing with the unions to include disciplinary action. I worked in South LA. Think I saw it all, and it all comes back to the fact that a business owner must make a profit. That is their reward for risk taking and running the business in an efficient and effective manner. More importantly are the paychecks that come from profit. In order to produce profit the business must efficiently run. If you were given an order at work and you stood there questioning the supervisor about that order you would eventually be terminated. Outside the work environment you can question all you want......I guess, but unless you are working for an organization that profits on creativity.....you best do as directed....and Jimmy I am surprised you are accusing someone of "rattle(ing) off some nonsense." It's really all relative, isn't it?
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:36 AM
 
2,794 posts, read 2,028,953 times
Reputation: 2738
We all live under some form of authority, whether it working for a boss at the employer we work for or a Government that tells us what the laws of the land are. If we obey the laws of the land, we are allowed to live free (At least in this Country). When we fill out an application with a company we are saying we will agree to work under the policies of the company and they will pay us to do a job. If they ask us to do something illegal then we have a right to question the authority asking us to do what is illegal or outright not do it. I choose to follow the policies of the Company I work for, unless I am being told to do something wrong, against the law or to get some one fired. When you make a big deal out of something minor, that's not a good time to question authority.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:44 AM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,754 posts, read 3,712,462 times
Reputation: 19886
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678 View Post

2. They don’t want accountability if they do something bad or wrong.
This, exactly.

I also don't feel sorry for people who do something wrong just based on the fear of getting fired if they don't follow orders.
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Old Yesterday, 07:35 AM
 
3,317 posts, read 1,885,138 times
Reputation: 1857
I know you're just talking about something illegal/unethical but if it affects you negatively then you should be able to question too. An unhappy employee is an unproductive employee. Sure it's a job so maybe you need to do things you don't necessarily like at times but if your employee is hating life partially because of it then you need to rethink the rules or if you can't, do everything in your power to land them another job.
Everytime I protest about it though all I get is if you don't like it resign. Would I get a decent amount of unemployment if I did? Probably not. I've been looking to leave the day I got there really and now it's reached an intolerable point. I even tried to apply for disability. They said I have to stick it out because I don't have enough credits.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sas318 View Post
If you follow orders, you are obedient, but also seen as dumb. Your boss will NOT think of you when considering a raise or giving you more responsibility. You don't use your brain, after all. You simply do as you're told.

But on the other hand, if you question authority, i.e. your boss, you are seen as combative and argumentative. I had a boss tell me this, and this was one of the reasons he fired me.

So what the heck should an employee be?? Either way, you are screwed.

I won't ever get a raise and I don't want more responsibility (I will never be a manager/lead/head).


But yes it is a catch 22 for me as well. If I follow orders it puts me in the position of being a pushover. If you never question things that's how you get taken advantage of but if you don't follow the rules even if they might consider you a good employee and even they think the rules are dumb they have to fire you because of corporate.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Abigail View Post
In an employment setting you will lose your job if you do not follow orders. You can refuse an order only if it violates a law or it presents physical harm. That's life. Isn't it? Don't like it? Start your own business. Allowing your employees to do what they want should make you a success in no time.

Only directly I presume. So if it presents emotional/mental harm it doesn't matter? Mental stress can turn into physical symptoms.
It's not that simple. Why is that always the answer? I need some sort of direction for structure but it doesn't mean that I can blindly follow every rule. I'm not a leader but I'm also not a follower so it has to be somewhere in the middle.
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