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Corporations got what they wanted, killing off pensions, and many labor rules of past they need to pay their fair share. The future will depend on how much companies give back to this economy or else consumption will drop. Jobs will disappear and our taxes all go towards paying government worker entitlements.
I suspect that we are in agreement on many subjects and I respect your opinion. So let me ask you this; if American corporations let the American standard of living fall through the floor, is it perhaps because they are more interested in focusing on the growing Asian markets?
This must then include any scheduled salary increases and negotiated performance increases. I've observed instances where people who were in non union administrative jobs did not get raises for five years.
For the 4th time in this thread...yes...if you choose to not join a union, you shouldn't get any benefits that a union provides. I've said that multiple times, why do you keep questioning it? What was going on economically in the company when those people were not getting raises for five years? What was the industry going through? Were those people performing such that they deserved raises? No one should be guaranteed an annual raise if the company isn't doing well enough to pay it, and if they aren't personally performing well enough to prove they deserve a raise. I never want a 'scheduled raise'. I want a raise if I can prove I deserve it. How would the union know if the company is doing well enough to pay out raises, or if the person is performing adequately enough to deserve a raise when negotiating a 'scheduled annual raise'?
So again, If unions can't survive without the money from people they forced to join, they are a racketeering scheme. Why are many pro-union people so afraid of giving people an option to not join? If unions are actually beneficial as people claim claim, they'd have nothing to worry about by giving people the option to leave a union within a company.
With respect, this original post reads like someone who has never worked in a non-unionized environment. How many years, if any have you had a job outside of a union?
So those of us that have been on both sides of the fence are being insulted for having REAL and VALID opinions about unions.
This thread is nothing but BS propaganda for an element of the workplace that has long outlived its usefulness.
Unions may be good for some workers these days (for reasons we can debate), but a lot more people seem to do better without them! And that is a pure fact that I've experienced.
Agreed. This is the kind of thread that reinforces the idea that unions are trying to strong arm people into joining. How people think they will convince anyone to their way of thinking by continually insulting others is beyond me.
This definitely reads like propaganda. If the extremely pro or anti union people actually listened and responded to the people who have opposing viewpoints, threads like this would be taken more seriously.
I’m definitely pro-union. You don’t get the same protection by yourself as you do with a group. They can fire you and hire someone new off the street or they can face protests or a ton of other stuff from a union where you and your coworkers who help run the operation make the company pay raises.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence wage stagnation and exponential income inequality increases happened the same time unions started to lose popularity and support...
IDK. I mean, the dental and optical plans and pension are great and all, but aside from that, I could take or leave a Union. Being in the compliance end of things, I see some dysfunctional people who would not have jobs if it weren’t for union protection... but it is also nice to have contract raises (so long as one gets a satisfactory annual review).
It seems you didn't actually read my post first. That's fine, but please try to read it first, then respond. Unions should be a choice to someone at a workplace. Not a strong armed "join or you don't get the job".
Saying "just don't apply to the company" if you don't want to be unionized is like knowing the mob is shaking down local businesses as part of a racketeering scheme, and your answer is "just don't open a business in that neighborhood".
I'll repeat myself, so you can respond to the point I made. Unions should be a choice in every workplace. If unions can't survive without the money from people they force to join, they are a racketeering scheme, not something useful.
People should have the right to choose mandatory membership unions. Nobody is ever forced to take such a job. They can always go get one of those non-union jobs that (according to several here) pay higher wages, offer greater opportunity, great benefits and don't have slackers because they can fire slackers without the big bad union sticking up for them. Who in their right mind wouldn't take the latter over the former?
People who live in states with low union representation also face a double whammy with living in states with laws that are heavily biased towards mediocre or abusive employers with little protection for employees. There are some bad employees who game the system with unions and there are some good employers who would rarely or never need to be confronted by a union over their practices. However, more balanced laws for employee protection and unions are still needed as a deterrent against bad employers.
People should have the right to choose mandatory membership unions. Nobody is ever forced to take such a job. They can always go get one of those non-union jobs that (according to several here) pay higher wages, offer greater opportunity, great benefits and don't have slackers because they can fire slackers without the big bad union sticking up for them. Who in their right mind wouldn't take the latter over the former?
Mod cut.
Unions should be a choice in every workplace. Every company should provide the option of either joining a union or not joining one. If you join, you get the benefits. If you choose not to join, you do not. Changing the state of things in this way would let people in currently unionized companies choose to leave the union without quitting. It would also mean people in companies currently not unionized would have the option of joining a union, if they want.
Mod cut.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 07-07-2019 at 07:53 PM..
Reason: Rude; baiting x 2.
I’m definitely pro-union. You don’t get the same protection by yourself as you do with a group. They can fire you and hire someone new off the street or they can face protests or a ton of other stuff from a union where you and your coworkers who help run the operation make the company pay raises.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence wage stagnation and exponential income inequality increases happened the same time unions started to lose popularity and support...
The key word is “group”. If you have a job that translates well into being part of a larger group, sure. But it also then means that everyone benefits (or doesn’t benefit) together.
I’d also be curious if there are ever contracts that reward member productivity or performance over tenure. I’ve never heard of one but they must exist, right?
I’ve never had a job in my career after the age of 23 that would have made me part of a “group” suitable for collective bargaining. I do realize that I’m probably an outlier in that regard.
I think the middle class was doing better in 1955, wasn't it? I wasn't around then...
Almost everyone is doing better today by almost any measure. Lower middle class today is better than middle class in 1955.
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