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Old 02-10-2011, 07:42 PM
 
55 posts, read 52,194 times
Reputation: 47
My Experience: I do contract I.T work in the DC area, new job every couple of years. The key is that going into a position you have to know what your "number" is. What would you like to make. When they ask about past salary they are really trying to find out if they are in the ball park. There is nothing wrong with a recruiter trying to do this. If they ask, you say I want to make $75,000 a year with 3 or 4 weeks vacation and a 5% 401(k) match etc. etc.
You need to do the research to figure this out. Sales people know exactly what they are worth, that is why they usually take a low salary with a high bonus structure for good performance.
I have worked with recruiters who are obsessed with past salary, they are usually low-ballers, but the good recruiters need to know if they can afford you . The bottom line is that you need to do the research and it someone asks you what you want to make, there should me no hesitation. Just don't forget the vacation, some will try to only give you two weeks which is a joke for anything but entry level.

If someone if persistent about old salary, say "What is the maximum of the range for this position?"


But don't lie, don't ever lie about anything.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:32 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY/CT area.
218 posts, read 297,187 times
Reputation: 61
It is especially interesting, when the position description says something, like "Resumes without salary history will not be considered." Do you want me to send you info on my all compensation package? Ever heard about NDA by chance? There are a LOT more things to consider, than just salary.

I may be interested in particular position, even if it pays $XX,XXX.xx with interesting/decent responsibilities/benefits and I may reject position, which pays $XXX,XXX.xx.

I had 1st phone interview with "LMS" here in NJ and was asked after just 2 minutes how much I am making and where I work. I do understand recruiters' desire to be "efficient", but I am not going to follow this path, if I masked my current Employer, there may be a reason(s) for that on my side, Employer side or both. Indian recruiters especially "strong" in it, they would send you irrelevant positions(spam) and ask for your current compensation, SSN etc. Let me see... No.

On "I am recruiter/HR" statement, yes, you are. I have a very good example. I saw ad on the Internet, company was hiring, they were in my area/industry and I sent my resume. Nothing. About month later I sent another resume, because position was still open. Nothing. Sat evening I e-mailed my resume to the Manager directly and he answered half an hr later and scheduled interview on Monday. I got offer from him, he called HR person to take care of paperwork and when he gave that person my resume, the answer was "Hmmm, I already have it", you can imagine manager's and HR's faces at that moment.

If you think you are so important you can trash candidate's resume because he or she did not give you salary or may be made an omission(11/1/11), I would think twice whether you are really interested to find the right person. And keep in mind situations, when after you where hired and been told originally "they have some issues", after just week or two you realise they actually have ISSUES and compensation package offered is not that attractive anymore.

I have better experience when Managers(decision makers) see my resume, than HR/Recruiters. Manager or VP Operations know exactly what they see, they are familiar with lingo/abbreviations... I have heard multiple stories from guys, about candidates, which HR picked up("selected!") because those candidates were the best, they had more years of experience, than others. The only problem was selected candidates had, for example, 8 years of experience with C++, when C++ was... 3 years old. Oooops. Now, tell me again how HR trash my resume instead of someone else's.

It is very difficult to find the balance between having useful employees(including HR) and saving as much, as you can.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:53 PM
 
Location: California
153 posts, read 223,622 times
Reputation: 123
[quote=barrier12;17841434]The only problem was selected candidates had, for example, 8 years of experience with C++, when C++ was... 3 years old. Oooops. Now, tell me again how HR trash my resume instead of someone else's.
quote]

C++ was only 3 years old? You gotta be kidding
Ok, I know it is just an example
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:58 PM
 
1,096 posts, read 2,209,456 times
Reputation: 1021
I agree this is one of the ridiculous policies that favor employer similar to we have to give them 2 weeks notice but they don't have to give us 2 weeks notice.

What I'm currently making is none of a companies business and what I make at a new company should be based on my resume and how I sell myself, what a previous company with a different position paid.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:14 PM
 
1,044 posts, read 773,995 times
Reputation: 1408
I seldom applied for positions which did not list their salary range in their job postings. It just seemed either a waste of time or an opportunity to get a nasty surprise after much prep and time put into applying and interviewing. I actually consider myself a "sucker" for being honest about salary in some instances, as despite what some say, I honestly believe many companies will lowball you in a heartbeat and have very little qualms about not holding themselves to the same "honesty" standards they want from their employees.

I wouldn't lie on principle, but I avoid discussing salary till I have sold myself, and truthfully, in the past there have been many lifestyle concessions I have traded off for dollars. I would expect more money for extensive commutes, travel, time away from my family, a whole slew of things - and if I have the feeling that those things effect another position, I make it known that I made those concessions & considered them a part of my salary, with a monetary value. The whole package is the answer they get from me. Yes, my salary was XXX, but I also had minimal commute, XXX vacation, company phone, option to work from home, 100% health insurance etc etc whatever.

Lowballing is lowballing. But if you are good and they want you, they will appreciate the tangible and intangible benefits which are worth $$$$$$$ to you and justify a higher monetary compensation if they can't match those intangibles.

I think it's important that you put a value, both monetary and to you personally, on those things B4 you show up for an interview. Sure, tell them your salary -- but let's say you made XX at your last position, but it was five miles from home. This one is 30. Over a year, how much does that cost you in time and gas etc? You worked up to 3 weeks vacation, now you're back to 1 -- that's 2 weeks pay. There are tons of reasons why you have accepted a lower salary than you think you now can command - your co put a salary freeze on - anything.

Telling your salary is what it is. If you honestly think someone will lowball you, then get your ducks in order and be prepare to justify an increase. You can be honest and still come out on top.
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:22 AM
 
1,096 posts, read 2,209,456 times
Reputation: 1021
Quote:
Originally Posted by nj185 View Post
I seldom applied for positions which did not list their salary range in their job postings. It just seemed either a waste of time or an opportunity to get a nasty surprise after much prep and time put into applying and interviewing. I actually consider myself a "sucker" for being honest about salary in some instances, as despite what some say, I honestly believe many companies will lowball you in a heartbeat and have very little qualms about not holding themselves to the same "honesty" standards they want from their employees.

I wouldn't lie on principle, but I avoid discussing salary till I have sold myself, and truthfully, in the past there have been many lifestyle concessions I have traded off for dollars. I would expect more money for extensive commutes, travel, time away from my family, a whole slew of things - and if I have the feeling that those things effect another position, I make it known that I made those concessions & considered them a part of my salary, with a monetary value. The whole package is the answer they get from me. Yes, my salary was XXX, but I also had minimal commute, XXX vacation, company phone, option to work from home, 100% health insurance etc etc whatever.

Lowballing is lowballing. But if you are good and they want you, they will appreciate the tangible and intangible benefits which are worth $$$$$$$ to you and justify a higher monetary compensation if they can't match those intangibles.

I think it's important that you put a value, both monetary and to you personally, on those things B4 you show up for an interview. Sure, tell them your salary -- but let's say you made XX at your last position, but it was five miles from home. This one is 30. Over a year, how much does that cost you in time and gas etc? You worked up to 3 weeks vacation, now you're back to 1 -- that's 2 weeks pay. There are tons of reasons why you have accepted a lower salary than you think you now can command - your co put a salary freeze on - anything.

Telling your salary is what it is. If you honestly think someone will lowball you, then get your ducks in order and be prepare to justify an increase. You can be honest and still come out on top.
You make a good point, I'm curious what hiring managers think about things like commute. Obviously if they want you bad and you require a little extra to make the commute tolerable they will give it to you but for an entry level job or job that doesn't necessarily have to have you do they care if you have an hour commute vs a 10 minute commute? It's not their fault you live where you live.

I can see if its work hours, taking work home, being in charge or employees that you demand more pay for but something like I live an hour away so I need more money. Sure its a good reaon to ask for more as your wasting an additonal 2 hours in the car, gas, wear and tear on car but really does an employer care or do they think if thats an issue maybe you should move or apply for jobs closer to your home
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:37 PM
 
132 posts, read 118,728 times
Reputation: 189
In some fields, "what's your salary" doesn't cut it. It's total compensation that counts. For me, that's the following:

Base Salary: base amount

Bonus: 30% of base amount

Per Diems: I have a 100% travel job. At end of year, if I were to treat the total as derived post-tax, which, of course, it isn't, ~10% of base amount. I would most certainly add this amount to any "what's your currently salary" question and back it up with my pay statements

Travel: EXP status on AMR, mid-level status on UA and DL, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond. Total value (I've worked this out on a xls - includes approx 250-300K miles, 8 int'l SWUs, 250-300K hotel pts, Suite UGs, everything that comes with status at hotels and airlines, etc) worth about 10K a year (post-tax). I certainly treat this like compensation

Housing and Car: Both company provided for. I value this at 30K (pre-tax)

Harder to quantify some of these things, of course. But still, each one of those items would factor in my answer and I would back it up with hard numbers and calculations in each case.
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:39 PM
JS1
 
1,899 posts, read 3,711,400 times
Reputation: 1487
I'll tell a potential employer anything I want for salary, because my last two employers won't release any information except dates of employment.

I also run a small business and can "pay" myself, the CEO and President, anything I want.

Salary negotiation isn't lying. If you demand too much money, they won't hire you, simple as that.
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:42 PM
JS1
 
1,899 posts, read 3,711,400 times
Reputation: 1487
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfr69 View Post
You make a good point, I'm curious what hiring managers think about things like commute. Obviously if they want you bad and you require a little extra to make the commute tolerable they will give it to you but for an entry level job or job that doesn't necessarily have to have you do they care if you have an hour commute vs a 10 minute commute? It's not their fault you live where you live.

I can see if its work hours, taking work home, being in charge or employees that you demand more pay for but something like I live an hour away so I need more money. Sure its a good reaon to ask for more as your wasting an additonal 2 hours in the car, gas, wear and tear on car but really does an employer care or do they think if thats an issue maybe you should move or apply for jobs closer to your home
The particular reason you need more money to accept working there isn't all that relevant. You could say "I need to be paid more because I like expensive wine" and it all means the same to the employer -- this person wants to be paid more dollars, is it worth it, or should we go with the lesser candidate who doesn't demand as much pay?
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:19 AM
 
756 posts, read 826,254 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by JS1 View Post
because my last two employers won't release any information except dates of employment.
Same with mine - my current and old employers won't release salary information. Employers withhold as they probably believe it would otherwise lead to salary fishing by agencies that aren't even doing background checks.

However, I've heard anecdotally of companies asking applicants to submit copies of old W2s or payment stubs during the background check. I suppose someone on their end could get a calculation of the hourly wage or salary and see if it is matchable to what was provided on the application.

On some web form applications that I've used, the last salary field is a required field, so the salary history is unavoidable. Salary info provided on an actual application (for direct hire situations) can be matched against information from the background check.

Last edited by avg12; 02-14-2011 at 11:31 AM..
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