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Old 11-13-2008, 06:22 PM
 
Location: City, State
364 posts, read 1,045,955 times
Reputation: 153

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zxcv View Post
What what? You said in your prev comment that the companies should always count on staffing companies instead of their own HR, because using their own HR they hire bad people.
So, I was asking what's the diff between HR work and recruiter in the hiring process ?
Okay, that makes sense. I literally couldn't understand what you were asking me, it was written like a drunk person wrote it.

To answer your question... specialty. HR people recruit on all positions -- legal, finance, accounting, IT, warehouse, engineering, everything that their company does. Staffing firms specialize in finding certain types of people. If you need an IT guy, I GUARANTEE you that an IT staffing firm will do a better job of finding what you're looking for than your HR Generalist. That's why firms like that exist. It's pretty fundamental.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:47 PM
Rei
 
Location: Los Angeles
492 posts, read 1,224,116 times
Reputation: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6 View Post
Again, it's not BS. My company guarantees to all of our clients that we check references on every candidate, along with interview them ourselves, prior to our client even seeing the resume. It's part of the reason why companies pay us tens of thousands of dollars to find people for them.
You are quoting me out of context.
I said I usually present recruiters with a copy of my professional engineering license (which you could check via state website), degrees and some of my projects. My work speaks for itself. The buildings still stand, the freeways haven't collapsed. I haven't had anyone needing a professional reference when I presented my 'credentials'.

Quote:
If you can't understand this, then it's best to just not waste anyone's time and avoid working with recruiters altogether.
If a recruiter can't understand what I said above, I just hang up the phone b/c they're useless.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:48 PM
 
Location: southern california
50,376 posts, read 47,810,582 times
Reputation: 41804
its employment at will. no unions on deck same ol same ol.
they can ask anything they want.
in this case they wana know what your ex boss thinks of you.
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:10 PM
 
Location: City, State
364 posts, read 1,045,955 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei View Post
You are quoting me out of context.
I said I usually present recruiters with a copy of my professional engineering license (which you could check via state website), degrees and some of my projects. My work speaks for itself. The buildings still stand, the freeways haven't collapsed. I haven't had anyone needing a professional reference when I presented my 'credentials'.
That's all fine and dandy, but a piece of paper doesn't really say anything about you as an employee. It says that you're a P.E. and that's great, but often times employers require a P.E. as a condition of employment, so that hardly suffices as a reference. It says nothing about you as an employee -- i.e. do you show up on time, how good are you at client interfacing, how's your attitude, do you stay late when asked, etc.

It's a little different with engineering, and some engineering companies simply need a body -- someone that can design things, regardless of anything else. But often times, they want an employee who will fit the team, not just a body for the open cube. And your P.E. doesn't mean anything in that regard.

At the end of the day, your former boss's thoughts on you mean a WHOLE lot more than your project list.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:19 PM
 
29 posts, read 92,956 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6 View Post
Okay, that makes sense. I literally couldn't understand what you were asking me, it was written like a drunk person wrote it.

To answer your question... specialty. HR people recruit on all positions -- legal, finance, accounting, IT, warehouse, engineering, everything that their company does. Staffing firms specialize in finding certain types of people. If you need an IT guy, I GUARANTEE you that an IT staffing firm will do a better job of finding what you're looking for than your HR Generalist. That's why firms like that exist. It's pretty fundamental.
See, that happens to me all the time: I'm talking wiht a recruiter and he thinks I'm drunk ... even if I drink extremly rarely and very little. It's weird.
I think I should became a recruiter ?...
However, you still owe me an answer: where/how is the IT recruiter work better then HR? The recruiter does not know OOP, C#, COM, VB, Java, etc. So again... I still don't understand this part.... and I swear I'm not drunk.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:52 AM
Rei
 
Location: Los Angeles
492 posts, read 1,224,116 times
Reputation: 222
Quote:
That's all fine and dandy, but a piece of paper doesn't really say anything about you as an employee. It says that you're a P.E. and that's great, but often times employers require a P.E. as a condition of employment, so that hardly suffices as a reference. It says nothing about you as an employee -- i.e. do you show up on time, how good are you at client interfacing, how's your attitude, do you stay late when asked, etc.
My resume answers your question. My work/career history, continuous employment, goals, career path and achievements directly reflect my attitude as employee - how I show up on time, how hard I work. That should be more than enough for preliminary screening.

Although I can understand your perspective, let's take a look at it from MY point of view.
I have presented all of the above qualifications, which you could corroborate, yet still want personal references. OTOH, the only thing I know about you is only a
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6
piece of paper doesn't really say anything about you
describing ONLY qualifications and a brief descriptions of opening, not even mentioning salary, benefits, or what company. No one in their right mind would go more than that.

Quote:
At the end of the day, your former boss's thoughts on you mean a WHOLE lot more than your project list.
I agree. I would give my boss' info AFTER the interview. You corroborate the interview with what my boss thinks AFTERWARD. My credentials are enough to answer basic ethical/personality question.
Plus, no way I'm risking my current position for something unsure while you already knowing so much.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:09 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 2,400,663 times
Reputation: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6 View Post
I'm sorry, but... what?

Jackyfrost01 -- good, smart recruiters only accept work phone numbers for references in order to avoid getting duped by shady people like you.
Shady? no.
Desperate? yes.
Frustrated and feeling cornered into it? yes.
Resourseful and willing to do what it takes to get a paycheck to avoid living on the street? yes.

What if the employer no longer exists?
Or its been so long the people there don't remember or know you or have any reliable information to tell a recruiter?

How would they know its a "work" number? Not every business answers with the company name. Other than that its just an acting job that convinces the person its authentic.

Some workplaces only confirm you worked there and offer no other info. So in some cases you may just need a general human resources number (can find that on the internet) for them to call. I've done that in cases where I didn't remember or knew my boss was long since retired and gone.
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:14 PM
 
Location: City, State
364 posts, read 1,045,955 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by zxcv View Post
See, that happens to me all the time: I'm talking wiht a recruiter and he thinks I'm drunk ... even if I drink extremly rarely and very little. It's weird.
I think I should became a recruiter ?...
However, you still owe me an answer: where/how is the IT recruiter work better then HR? The recruiter does not know OOP, C#, COM, VB, Java, etc. So again... I still don't understand this part.... and I swear I'm not drunk.
Think about it man. Who's more capable of finding a .NET developer? An HR Generalist, who recruits on every single position open in the company, along with doing new hire orientation, benefits, etc. or an IT Recruiter, who talks with IT people, and only IT people all day long?

You're not really arguing that HR Generalists are better at recruiting technical resources than a technical staffing firm, are you?
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:15 PM
 
Location: City, State
364 posts, read 1,045,955 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei View Post
My resume answers your question. My work/career history, continuous employment, goals, career path and achievements directly reflect my attitude as employee - how I show up on time, how hard I work. That should be more than enough for preliminary screening.

Although I can understand your perspective, let's take a look at it from MY point of view.
I have presented all of the above qualifications, which you could corroborate, yet still want personal references. OTOH, the only thing I know about you is only a
describing ONLY qualifications and a brief descriptions of opening, not even mentioning salary, benefits, or what company. No one in their right mind would go more than that.

I agree. I would give my boss' info AFTER the interview. You corroborate the interview with what my boss thinks AFTERWARD. My credentials are enough to answer basic ethical/personality question.
Plus, no way I'm risking my current position for something unsure while you already knowing so much.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, and I don't disagree with your logic. I'm just saying that doing what you do will often times cause you to miss out on opportunities.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Chi-Town soon to be NYC and eventually Ireland
285 posts, read 777,921 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by glxyman21 View Post
In my history of using recruiters, i found most of them to be of poor service and quality. They fish for resumes online to build their databases and find names of companies. Whenever I have gone to past interviews, references only needed to be from someone at your past work - manager or not. Recruiters only want to speak to a manager because usually a manager would have decision making on hiring and it is a direct line to fish for more jobs to fill. Also, don't fall into the trick of answering questions of "who else are you interviewing with?" as this is another line for them to find more company names and contacts - just say you have interviews lined up and you do not wish to disclose who.

Recruitment is only a sales factory - and nothing more. If you think about it, they never give you the company name. Yet companies want people that are going to be passionate and enthusiastic about working for them. how can someone become that if they don't find out who it is a few days before interview and then realise they don't want to work for that company. I am a strong believer that companies should do their own recruitment to find the best candidate for them without the miscommunication that comes with a middle-man.

You are so very wrong about this. The reason we ask is so we don't risk our reputations and waste our clients' time with resumes they have already seen. I always ask, and I've still been burned on this. It makes me AND the candidate look bad. It's a questions ANY quality recruiter asks.
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