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Old 11-10-2008, 07:59 PM
 
29 posts, read 91,297 times
Reputation: 26

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It seems ridiculous, but in the last 2 weeks I was contacted for several recruiters saying thet they have job opportunities for me, but before they could set up a technical interview wiht the company, they need to check my references and the references has to be the manager!!!

I provided to some of them my references but not the manager one, and they checked my references and did not setup any interview because I did not provide them the manager( I have to mention that they tested my techinical knowleadge - programming field- on a phone screening and said that was OK).
I think that that's a really a big SCAM here: they want to get managers cell phones so they can contact them and ask for jobs.

Is anybody here experiencing the same issue?

Isn't this consider an abuse on the people trying to find a job in these bad days ? Can't they be punished in a way for taking advantage on that?
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:05 PM
 
2,141 posts, read 5,361,700 times
Reputation: 1153
You're absolutely wrong on this. They reason they want references is because part of the service that they provide their clients is to have checked references on candidates that they are going to present to them. All clients want the reference done and some ask the recruiters to quote what was said on the references. Recruiters can't go around this policy, or are not supposed to because hypothetically, if they place someone at a company and that person winds up stealing money, for instance, they are not held accountable in any way because the references were done. I am a recruiter and won't work with anyone that can't provide me with a least 2 professional references. This is why it's very important for everyone to stay in touch with former managers and upon leaving a job, ask them for their cell or home number or personal email address, in case they leave the company. You need to be able to locate them and ask them to supply references for you. If they won't the thinking is that they're not comfortable doing it for some reason and that's a red flag. Just because someone interviews well and has stellar skills, does not mean that they have a good work ethic, or were dependable. I get references from managers on my candidates all of the time and the managers often work for companies that have a "no reference" policy. The fact of the matter is that if a valued employee leaves a company, the manager will want to help that person land their next job. If your previous managers can't be counted on for references, then you need to ask an executive, owner or someone else within the company if they will provide one for you. Most companies that I work with, do the references again, even after I've done them.
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:48 PM
 
29 posts, read 91,297 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinolala View Post
You're absolutely wrong on this. They reason they want references is because part of the service that they provide their clients is to have checked references on candidates that they are going to present to them. All clients want the reference done and some ask the recruiters to quote what was said on the references. Recruiters can't go around this policy, or are not supposed to because hypothetically, if they place someone at a company and that person winds up stealing money, for instance, they are not held accountable in any way because the references were done. I am a recruiter and won't work with anyone that can't provide me with a least 2 professional references. This is why it's very important for everyone to stay in touch with former managers and upon leaving a job, ask them for their cell or home number or personal email address, in case they leave the company. You need to be able to locate them and ask them to supply references for you. If they won't the thinking is that they're not comfortable doing it for some reason and that's a red flag. Just because someone interviews well and has stellar skills, does not mean that they have a good work ethic, or were dependable. I get references from managers on my candidates all of the time and the managers often work for companies that have a "no reference" policy. The fact of the matter is that if a valued employee leaves a company, the manager will want to help that person land their next job. If your previous managers can't be counted on for references, then you need to ask an executive, owner or someone else within the company if they will provide one for you. Most companies that I work with, do the references again, even after I've done them.
That's NOT true at all MR recruiter,and btw all recruiters reading this post please DO NOT contribute to it because I know your story.

In all my years of experience and I have a lot, my references were checked as the LAST STEP, after I passed the technical interview and the interview with the new possible manager. At that step the new manager/HR person requested me references.

The recruiters story does not work because what if I provide my former manager cell phone to 10 recruiters and the manager is called 10 times and I got NO interview? So, I'm ending jobless and my ex-manager hates me, so what will hapen 11th time?

Another reason your story stinks is because : what if my ex-manager says I'm the most briliant person in the world and I am a genius and when I get to the interview I don't pass it ? What the deal here?

FYI, I got a lots of jobs in this way:
1. recruiter contacted me, talked to me over the phone, got my updated resume
2. set up a prescreening interview
3. set up an interview wiht the company looking for a job
4 if afiramtive, I was asked for references
5. they checked them
6. offer provided
7. accepted
Success

What about this?
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:59 PM
 
25,170 posts, read 34,023,469 times
Reputation: 6701
yes they are giving you a hard time. I experienced that myself. The people were really creepy and cold.

Last edited by artsyguy; 11-10-2008 at 09:20 PM..
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:16 PM
 
Location: NJ
2,073 posts, read 5,534,199 times
Reputation: 922
[quote=zxcv;6104716]That's NOT true at all MR recruiter,and btw all recruiters reading this post please DO NOT contribute to it because I know your story.

In all my years of experience and I have a lot, my references were checked as the LAST STEP, after I passed the technical interview and the interview with the new possible manager. At that step the new manager/HR person requested me references.

The recruiters story does not work because what if I provide my former manager cell phone to 10 recruiters and the manager is called 10 times and I got NO interview? So, I'm ending jobless and my ex-manager hates me, so what will hapen 11th time?

Another reason your story stinks is because : what if my ex-manager says I'm the most briliant person in the world and I am a genius and when I get to the interview I don't pass it ? What the deal here?

FYI, I got a lots of jobs in this way:
1. recruiter contacted me, talked to me over the phone, got my updated resume
2. set up a prescreening interview
3. set up an interview wiht the company looking for a job
4 if afiramtive, I was asked for references
5. they checked them
6. offer provided
7. accepted
Success

I agree with zxcv. Most of the time if it's a professional reference, they would want whoever you worked closely with or for. I didn't work directly with my Manager, but I did work closer with a Supervisor or an Engineer. It's also in the sequence as stated above.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX & AL Gulf Coast
4,358 posts, read 5,715,946 times
Reputation: 18299
Completely agree with zxcv! This is exactly how it works when these recruiters actually have REAL clients with REAL jobs to interview for!

It's called -- plain and simple -- fishing for leads, folks! And, all recruiters have to do this from time to time.

They have no open positions to fill and are looking for manager names to get into the organizations you either work at or have worked for so they WILL have something to fill!

Don't fall for this! You'll be out of a job and out of references quickly if you pass these out upfront -- and NO interview in sight!
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:47 AM
 
Location: City, State
364 posts, read 1,032,766 times
Reputation: 153
No, it's not fishing for leads. It's doing what your client is asking of you. Part of the reason that companies use staffing firms is to remove things off their plate -- finding candidates, negotiating salaries, checking references, etc. I work for a staffing firm, one of the leading ones in the country. Do recruiters send leads to their account managers? Absolutely. They'd be stupid not to. But it's not why they ask for them. They ask for them because they need to verify that what is on a candidate's resume is actually true. If you're working with a recruiter, you're going to have to be a damn good candidate, otherwise recruiters will skip over you and find someone better. And if you're not willing to provide references, well, that's a huge red flag.

Bottom line is this. If you're looking for a new job, and you're working with a recruiter, then be prepared to give references up front. Otherwise, simply blindly submit your resume to a general email address where it will get lumped in with 100's of others.

One last thing. The best companies already know your previous manager. Back when I was recruiting, if a candidate said "yeah, I was a .NET developer for company X doing this, this and this for the last few years", I would typically respond by saying "oh, you worked for 'Joe Smith' then, right?" Good companies don't need to rely on shady candidates to get leads.
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:54 AM
 
33 posts, read 71,213 times
Reputation: 34
When I was unemployed I worked with a number of recruiters and some asked to call my professional references before they would send me out on interviews that they had set up. I was not happy about this because my professional references were busy executives who do not have time to talk to a half dozen people calling to check up on me before they even sent me to an interview at a company I may not even be interested in.

I told them no, I did not want them to call unless I was a finalist for a position that I was very interested in. They tried to talk me out of it because they said the managers at the company they work for want pre screened applicants who the recruiters can promote without reservations.

I told them I understood his logic but if my professional references get to many calls about me they may decide I am taking up to much of their time and will not return the phone calls of companies I really want to work at.

We agreed to disagree and I was dropped from consideration. You can not win.
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX & AL Gulf Coast
4,358 posts, read 5,715,946 times
Reputation: 18299
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6 View Post
No, it's not fishing for leads.
Sorry, I stand by my original assessment w/30 yrs experience at it to back this statement up. Come on... when they have the audacity to ask you for references on a very first or second phone call screen... and you reply back that this is confidential information... and it is... it's amazing how offended some of them become. And, speechless!

Quote:
Back when I was recruiting, if a candidate said "yeah, I was a .NET developer for company X doing this, this and this for the last few years", I would typically respond by saying "oh, you worked for 'Joe Smith' then, right?"
Yeah, I love this approach, too. Half the time, the "Joe Smith" they mention is someone you KNOW does NOT work/has NEVER worked at that company. What they're hoping and "expecting" you to reply with is a "No, I didn't work for Joe Smith, I worked for a John Smith". Another "gotcha".

Quote:
Good companies don't need to rely on shady candidates to get leads.
No, but they DO need to rely on obviously excellent candidates that have extensive experience at some of the BEST companies around to get leads. Don't ever worry about offending these kind of folks -- it's just business for both of you -- and what you're marketing is yourself, your skills and priceless references that -- as the previous poster stated -- do NOT want to be bothered constantly without good cause -- if they're worth your time -- they'll work with and for you!

Again, been at this game for a very longggg time... with a recruiter for a daughter as well... so know exactly how this is played on BOTH sides. And, am NOT dishing GOOD recruiters at all... but there is SHADY on both sides of the fence here. And, it's well worth knowing who is what at the get-go.
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
3,806 posts, read 5,631,400 times
Reputation: 4605
I've never worked with a recruiter to fill a position, but if I did, I would expect the candidates they sent me to have strong references so I'm not wasting my time interviewing only to find out they were 'creative' with their resumes.

Also, unless you are working with multiple recruiters, why would your previous managers have to be contacted multiple times?
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