Some Debt-Laden Gradutes Wonder Why They Bothered With College (interview, profit, payments)
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The problem is people are not going where the jobs are. They have such a limited search range if they opened up their search to more then one city,state,country they will see how worth it their degree is.
But not everybody can or wants to live everywhere. I could probably be managing editor at the newspaper where I used to live and own my own house by now but I HATED it there.
sinsativ - I hate to admit it, but I am terrible at doing math in my head. This is coming from someone that graduated from college summa c um laude with a business minor. It's some sort of little glitch in my brain. I would be able to figure that out, but it would take me a couple extra seconds, unfortunately something that many customers can't seem to spare.
When I was working, and interviewing potential candidates for positions in whichever company I worked, I looked at their experience; the degree was just (very little) icing on the cake.
I've found more qualified people that had worked their way up in the profession rather than someone with a BS or BA degree. It's the truth.
Degrees these days are almost worthless, and cost 5 times as much as when I went to college.
I think that depends.
You are unlikely to get hired by McKinsey Consulting, Boston Consulting, PWC, and then go on to be a CEO (see career history of Lou Gerstner) without the Ivy League sheepskin. It's the door opener.
Or an alternate example, you're not going to get to be a surgeon without the credentials.
That having been said, yes, in grunt level fields like Info Tech, experience and insultingly enough, "certifications" have become the stock and trade.
What has happened is that the "bar" on upper class has been bumped up. At one time it was bachelor's degree. How it's Masters or doctorate... in the right field of course.
Conversely, if you can sell, none of that matters. If you can move product you are golden.
The problem is people are not going where the jobs are. They have such a limited search range if they opened up their search to more then one city,state,country they will see how worth it their degree is.
Since I've had to consider work in all sorts of places I never considered living before (the reason I found these forums) I can say I can't blame folks for that.
I left my home town 10 years ago, following the work where ever I could get it. Between my experiences along the way, and study of this forum and others and various statistics...
I can't believe how many places where work is centered, flat out suck.
Detroit, Atlanta, Minn/St. Paul. Las Vegas, NYC, and on and on. So much urbanized wasteland out there.
The problem is people are not going where the jobs are. They have such a limited search range if they opened up their search to more then one city,state,country they will see how worth it their degree is.
Once I get my degree, I am pretty open to a lot of places.
My dream city is Washington D.C. but I know I'll have to put in some grunt work in AR to build up some experience and then I'm ready to pack my bags.
An undergraduate degree is really like a high school diploma - it does not require much thought. Now, back in the day when I got my MBA, I had to think. Therein lies the difference. One has to learn how to critically think in an area of interest in order to make it count.
Ok, I am glad that the amount of biology, chemistry and math courses that I am taking for my undergrad degree require 'no thought'. I will keep that in mind when I am busting my a$$ learning scientific names, balancing chemical reactions, and trying to make sense of complex mathematical equations. Since all of my studies do not require thought, I might as well just watch TV, huh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supernerdgirl
I have to argue that most times a 17 year old isn't totally sure about what they want to do with the rest of their lives.
This is exactly why I believe that the age of 'traditional' students needs to get bumped from 18 to at least 24.
Anyone who believes that a college degree is going to magically open the door to a hundred thousand dollar job right after graduation needs to take a serious does of reality before they even go to college.
The ABC article is full of doo-doo and it does not sound like the graduates really applied themselves after college. A college degree is useless to a person with no drive. You have to make things happen, not the degree. The students who do internships or even volunteer in a related field and those who take the time to bother with networking (as much as we all hate it) are the ones who land the jobs. I am sorry, but if you are one of the many people who are just going to college and just getting a degree than you are not going to get that job that you want. Maybe in ten or twenty years, but not now.
I disagree, but I'm old. I got my undergraduate many years ago. What I found that really made the difference in my thinking was a graduate degree. I had to really THINK. I will never regret my graduate education, as it really did change me.
A college education is a good thing, I went to college for 1 year 3 years ago for a Microsoft Office class to get into a data entry job. I did get a administrative job that dealt with data entry 3 years ago (before the economy went down the drain, and got laid off). I didn't regret going for that one year, I learned about all of the Microsoft Office suites, and can do a data entry job well in ANY company.
I don't think all degrees are worthless, you just have to pick a specialized degree (like nursing) instead of a general degree (like sociology). My English degree is pretty worthless unless I want decide to teach, but I never went into it expecting to make big bucks. I just love literature. Kaye
I'm all for college degrees...for people who know what they can do and are smart with their money. Getting a degree and then deciding you don't want a career in that field is silly, as it taking out a lot of loans for a potential low paying career.
I went to a specialized school where it was common to take out six figures of loans for undergrad. Some of these students were making 20-30k after college, but had a potential later on to make upwards of 100k. The problem is that just out of college loan payments over 1k a month are staggering when you aren't making too much. I have one personal story of a friend having to work two jobs she doesn't like just to pay the loans bills. My fiance actually has these high loan payments as well, although he has two degrees, and we're managing them ok due to a little luck. He did it because it was the only way he'd be able to get his dream job (pilot), although the industry tanked and he's now using his master's education. If he went back to flying right now we'd have to cust back expenses a lot to be able to afford the loan payments. I think it's worth it if you have a plan--such as parents being able to help, willing to work two jobs, and having an income potential.
It is sad to hear about people who don't realize that taking out huge loans equates to huge payments, and their after college salary may not be as high as they think, or even read. Some people look at average for their field, top salary, etc, not starting base salary.
I couldn't have gotten my current "dream" job without my degree, and my experience in school got my foot in the door and held the employer's interest. There would have been no other way in my specific field. A master's degree would actually probably have held me back more because it would have either led me down a management track, or gotten me more theoretical/academic experience vs. the practical experience.
This is just an example that generalized statements about careers and degrees are tricky--the different industries vary so much.
I also agree the article (and 20/20 story) was biased, but it did make it's point about people making "bad" decisions. Many 17 year olds applying to colleges are too niave to think about careers, salaries, etc, and focus on what they need to major in. More people should go to community colleges or work for a few years to really think about what they want to do before jumping into a degree--not all people are ready for that. I actaully think too many parents right now are pushing kids into colleges when the kid doesn't know what they want to do. With money on the line that may not be a great decision, but there are also numbers that say if you don't go to college right after high school you probably never will...
I have another friend who is graduating this year with a very general undergrad degree, no idea with what she wants to do, no internships, no work experience, and she's considering grad school just because it would delay the decision making process of what to apply for jobs in (although she'd have to pick a degree). In her case she has complete funding, so any degree that is completely free in my eyes is better than nothing at all. Most people work outside their field due to lots of reasons.
I am seeing more and more that having a 4-year college degree isn't the end-all-be-all. In the Boston area, there are plenty of professions that don't require this degree yet pay good wages. A dental hygienist position, which requires only a two-year degree, can pay about $70-90k starting out. Same with nursing and electricians. Not saying that all jobs not requiring a degree pay this well, but there is potential.
While I do agree that in the long run, jobs requiring degrees tend to pay more than those that don't on average, I think that there is a major disconnect between what college kids think they'll make to begin their careers and what they actually earn. I think I read that a couple of years ago, about a third of college seniors expected an average salary of $50k or more upon graduation. While these jobs definitely exist, I think many wound up disappointed. And I think another problem is that student loan payments are underestimated. If you have to make $1,000 minimium payments on your loan, which is $12,000 a year post-tax (or nearly $20,000 pre tax), even if you make $50k a year, it is a huge burden that crimps your lifestyle. So it's no wonder so many people in their 20s take second jobs...even a professional salary isn't enough these days.
Ok, I am glad that the amount of biology, chemistry and math courses that I am taking for my undergrad degree require 'no thought'. I will keep that in mind when I am busting my a$$ learning scientific names, balancing chemical reactions, and trying to make sense of complex mathematical equations. Since all of my studies do not require thought, I might as well just watch TV, huh.
Eh, some degrees are more rigorous than others. A person leaving college with an undergrad degree (only) in the sciences is probably in a much better place than leaving with a psych or soc degree. I agree with others that parents need to be talking with their kids when making decisions about majors. Sociology majors should probably stay in it for the long haul.
Re: where folk go to school...I also see no reason to spend a ton of money on an undergrad degree unless it's an Ivy school and only if a person has a track in mind. A friend of mine got an english degree from Harvard with no intent of grad school. She isn't fairing any better than other people right now. I went to a state uni (undergrad and grad), and we certainly didn't have the type of funding found at prestigious universities, so maybe the education wasn't on par. It didn't seem to make a difference when I left for industry. Maybe I've been lucky though.
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I would be able to figure that out, but it would take me a couple extra seconds, unfortunately something that many customers can't seem to spare.
, and interviewing potential candidates for positions in whichever company I worked, I looked at their experience; the degree was just (very little) icing on the cake. 
