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Which one do you think would be more energetic, up on current trends, and able to do the job? Looks aren't everything, but boy do they count for a LOT in that first impression...
Having an age appropriate but youthful look can definitely make or break your job hunt.
Those pictures definitely make the point. At 48, most women more look like Susan Boyle than Valerie Bertinelli.
The body is the first truth and it speaks volumes.
I suspect in some cases it's just "attractiveness discrimination".
C'mon, you're a hiring manager. You have to women apply. Both equally competent for the work at hand. One is young and hot, the other middle age... who you gonna hire.
Case 2... Same deal as above, but manager is younger than one of the applicants. Applicants are of any sex... You gonna hire the guy who reminds you of your dad, or the one you'd feel more comfortable giving orders too?
So no doubt age plays into it, but in many cases only because of what it means about one's attractiveness or other human interaction issues. Not so much because you are over xx years old.
Of course there is one clear age related issue. Years until you retire and thus have to be replaced. No point in investing a lot of OJT in someone you'll have to replace sooner, rather than later.
IBM pulls this alot in a slippery sort of way. They advertise for "College Interns" rather than for people with "Entry Level Skills". In this way they can keep a lot of older folks who know legacy technologies and have a degree in Comp. Sci out... while hiring kids straight from college with little or no experience and only the degree.
That tactic seems quite rampant in the software industry.
I've seen people who were older rejected for say, Sr. Programmer... then that same day they hire a college kid into Jr. Programmer position... then spend $$$ on sending them to boot camp to force them up to the skill level of the older guy. Generally this plays itself out where the young guy had the JAVA/C++ stuff in college, then they fast track the kid on Mainframe skills, rather than taking the oldster with mainframe skills and fast tracking them on new age skills.
IT is the only industry I can think of that throws its experienced members to the scrap heap in this manner.
Which one do you think would be more energetic, up on current trends, and able to do the job? Looks aren't everything, but boy do they count for a LOT in that first impression...
Having an age appropriate but youthful look can definitely make or break your job hunt.
If I want a singer, I hire Susan Boyle. She has the voice of an angel. She is also quirky and funny. Valerie Bertinelli, well, she seems sweet, too, if I want to sell Jenny Craig products.
Speaking for my own personal experience:
I know of many older, haggy and run down people with jobs. Come to Vermont. I can show you a whole bunch. When I go on ANY interviews, in a simple dress and simple makeup, I am still over dressed! In addition, I actually look like a woman! Many people in this area are slovenly! Yet, they work...???
We can't generalize. Older people DO get jobs. Not everyone with a job looks 35 or like a supermodel.
If I want a singer, I hire Susan Boyle. She has the voice of an angel. She is also quirky and funny. Valerie Bertinelli, well, she seems sweet, too, if I want to sell Jenny Craig products.
Speaking for my own personal experience:
I know of many older, haggy and run down people with jobs. Come to Vermont. I can show you a whole bunch. When I go on ANY interviews, in a simple dress and simple makeup, I am still over dressed! In addition, I actually look like a woman! Many people in this area are slovenly! Yet, they work...???
We can't generalize. Older people DO get jobs. Not everyone with a job looks 35 or like a supermodel.
Gypsy, you're kinda missing my point. I used them as examples because I knew they were both my age. But I meant them as examples or real life women, and a theoretical situation. Human nature is going to think of Valerie as a brighter, sharper, more current with trends and technology person. They will think of the woman who looks like Susan as "the crazy cat lady who still uses a manual typewriter."
You are in a slightly different situation than many because Vermont is known for it's "whole wheat, eatin', Birkie wearin', tree huggin' earth mama's." But still, even with that. the more youthful appearance of "woman A" is going to get her noticed and/or remembered.
BTW--I sent you a DM the other day but hadn't heard back. Did you not get it?
If I want a singer, I hire Susan Boyle. She has the voice of an angel. She is also quirky and funny. Valerie Bertinelli, well, she seems sweet, too, if I want to sell Jenny Craig products.
Speaking for my own personal experience:
I know of many older, haggy and run down people with jobs. Come to Vermont. I can show you a whole bunch. When I go on ANY interviews, in a simple dress and simple makeup, I am still over dressed! In addition, I actually look like a woman! Many people in this area are slovenly! Yet, they work...???
We can't generalize. Older people DO get jobs. Not everyone with a job looks 35 or like a supermodel.
I tend to agree. As I have posted before, I don't feel I have ever had too much difficulty getting a job. I am 53, average looking and somewhat overweight. (And this is Dallas ...which tends to have the reputation at least, unlike Vermont, for being a bit on the glitzy "shallow" side.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk
Gypsy, you're kinda missing my point. I used them as examples because I knew they were both my age. But I meant them as examples or real life women, and a theoretical situation. Human nature is going to think of Valerie as a brighter, sharper, more current with trends and technology person. They will think of the woman who looks like Susan as "the crazy cat lady who still uses a manual typewriter."
You are in a slightly different situation than many because Vermont is known for it's "whole wheat, eatin', Birkie wearin', tree huggin' earth mama's." But still, even with that. the more youthful appearance of "woman A" is going to get her noticed and/or remembered.
BTW--I sent you a DM the other day but hadn't heard back. Did you not get it?
I agree with you to a point. In real life, however, I think the examples you have given are kinda the "extreme" and not what you usually encounter in most real life 48 year old women. Also, remember that not everyone in hiring positions are men. Not everyone in hiring positions are young themselves. My own boss (the one that also hired me) is close to my own age or may be a couple years older and a woman. ( At 53, I am also not the oldest lady here.) The person who hired me at my last job was close to my age and a woman as well.
All that said, as I've also said before, I DO believe age discrimination is out there and it is a force that the older worker has to contend with and combat. But at the same time, I just don't think older workers should be totally disheartened either because it's been my experience, at least, that there are some employers quite willing to hire them. Again, that's been my experience here in Dallas, Texas.
In my experience as a recruiter I find it very rare that a younger manager will ever hire anyone ten or more years older than them. Most younger managers have very little respect for the older worker. If you show up at an interview and your potential manager is younger than you, it is unlikely he or she will hire you. Your best chance as a older worker is an interview with an older manager.
You are lucky! But, then again, you are 12 years younger than we are! And, believe me, 12 years CAN make a difference in looks; we have the photos of us that show that! Not only that, wife and I both love my cooking......too much at times! When I was 48, I was thinner than I am now AND more active as was my wife.
Was telling my wife this AM, before she went to work, "our resumes don't show our age, but once an interviewer sees us, THAT'S IT, the "age and looks" thing can definitely come into play"! It's just soooooooo unreal that there IS a law against "age discrimination", but what employer follows it????????? AGE and LOOKS plays a super big part in getting a job today.......as much, if not more, than a college degree and/or experience!! That is just FACT!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk
I look more like Valerie, especially in the body, and I'm 48. (5'7" and size 6 or 8 depending on the cut) I can't imagine letting myself go otherwise.
In my experience as a recruiter I find it very rare that a younger manager will ever hire anyone ten or more years older than them. Most younger managers have very little respect for the older worker. If you show up at an interview and your potential manager is younger than you, it is unlikely he or she will hire you. Your best chance as a older worker is an interview with an older manager.
So far I have never been interviewed by anyone younger than I am..I would say everyone was at least a few years to A LOT older.
Ok, age discrimination IS out there......think that is pretty much fact. Just how many 55 and older people out there are getting jobs today? When was the last time you were introduced to a new employee that was 60 years old (or appeared that old)? What I'm wondering about is the heavy-to-obese people....how do they get a job in this "health and fitness" crazed society? Wife and I don't have a big weight problem, but we don't look like we are in our 30's and "fit" either! We are, in fact, 60 and 61 and a little "plump", but not heavy. Do we get discriminated against for age/looks at an interview....
I'd say YES, no doubt about it!
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But still, even with that. the more youthful appearance of "woman A" is going to get her noticed and/or remembered.
