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I notice now jobs want you to be jacks of all trades. If I see an Administrative job, I assume you want someone to do computer work, answer phones, maybe do customer service, file and so forth.
Now I see a lot these jobs want you to do PAYROLL and ACCOUNTING as well. I respect Accountants and A/P people because I am not a math person. I wonder, however, at jobs that want you to do it all. I guess they'll assume 'the accountant' knows how to run the office as well as tally up bills and so on all day.
I do not know any accounting or quickbooks or whatever NOR do I want responsibility for the company payroll. They tried to dump that horse off on my at my last (temp) job. The woman who got saddled with it after the HR woman got tired of it quit within a few months.
To me, you can't expect IT ALL from people. You need strong administrators to deal with the office work and accounts people to work on the numbers...not one person being interrupted from task to task.
My degree is in Communications with an emphasis on PR. I DID take a graphics course in college in addition to a video class in which I learned how to make music videos and such.
First job I got out of college had no design element...more project management. My next job hired me for a new business coordinator position and it ended up having a HUGE design element and I ended up quitting 2 months later b/c I just didn't have the skills to keep up with the design aspect. I think they saw it on my resume and assumed I was a master. I was more like a popper, lol!
The next job I had was a marketing associate and they were smart-I did all the copy and advertising and they hired a graphic person and we were partners. best job ever.
Last job was a marketer...a sales marketer. No design. My current job is a marketer with sales and in house copy and such but I flat out told them I hate design and would be awful.
So...I have had all sorts. I have noticed a lot of jobs now want an all-in-one package...That's probably why I ended up going into sales marketing...no jobs with just one or the other.
Oh...and I know I have had a lot of jobs, lol! We move a lot.
I notice now jobs want you to be jacks of all trades. If I see an Administrative job, I assume you want someone to do computer work, answer phones, maybe do customer service, file and so forth.
Now I see a lot these jobs want you to do PAYROLL and ACCOUNTING as well. I respect Accountants and A/P people because I am not a math person. I wonder, however, at jobs that want you to do it all. I guess they'll assume 'the accountant' knows how to run the office as well as tally up bills and so on all day.
I do not know any accounting or quickbooks or whatever NOR do I want responsibility for the company payroll. They tried to dump that horse off on my at my last (temp) job. The woman who got saddled with it after the HR woman got tired of it quit within a few months.
To me, you can't expect IT ALL from people. You need strong administrators to deal with the office work and accounts people to work on the numbers...not one person being interrupted from task to task.
I've also noticed this to, Gypsy. I've been looking at admin asst. jobs but since I 've never done payroll or accounting, I've past them up. I figured they were a normal task. Guess not. Guess marketing isn't the only field where employers are looking to get more bang for their buck.
what my pet peeve really is - they want to cheap out and not hire a web designer and a marketing person and a graphic designer. Cheap. They want you to be all three. I can see this in a very small place where your website is not going to be extensive but in a big corp?
Since when did the graphic design field morph into the web design field. Graphic design requires you to be left brained. Web design you must know computers and code - completely different areas yet in some warped way they get combined into one department - thus one position. Just a BAD idea.
Oh yea, and they ask you to make up the marketing plans too. Isn't that what the marketing manager is for?
what my pet peeve really is - they want to cheap out and not hire a web designer and a marketing person and a graphic designer. Cheap. They want you to be all three. Since when did the graphic design field morph into the web design field. Graphic design requires you to be left brained. Web design you must know computers and code - completely different areas yet in some warped way they get combined into one department - thus one position. Just a BAD idea.
Oh yea, and they ask you to make up the marketing plans too. Isn't that what the marketing manager is for?
Yep, I think you're right.
A graphic designer friend of mine just starting a new job doing design and she's been asked to do some marketing so she's been getting out the text books to freshen up. SHe also said when she was looking people wanted her to do all kinds of code she wasn't famaliar with. They really want everything.
Since when did the graphic design field morph into the web design field. Graphic design requires you to be left brained. Web design you must know computers and code - completely different areas yet in some warped way they get combined into one department - thus one position. Just a BAD idea.
You couldn't be more wrong. Web Design is DESIGN. It requires first and foremost Illustrator/Photoshop and design skills, as well as a basic knowledge of html (which they teach 5th graders these days) and usually they want you to know how to use Dreamweaver, which is an easy to master WYSIWYG tool. There's nothing right sided about that. The differences between web and print design are pretty big but reading a couple of books will quickly help your figure it out. The basic tools are generally the same. (Dreamweaver replaces InDesign for example.)
Web development generally requires far less design and far more coding.
And some people can do both. I consider myself first and foremost a designer, but I took classes and learned all the programming and scripting as well. I am a left brain thinker, so it wasn't easy for me to learn the programming/coding end (I washed out with Java) but it can be done if you put your mind to it. I did cross over from the design to the programming side, and stayed there for five years before deciding that no amount of money was worth being that miserable for.
I am unemployed and have also been looking for work in marketing communications. And I'm finding that a lot of positions want you to somehow be a graphic designer too. I think it's ridiculous and is just a cost-cutting method. You either majored in English/Journalism/Communications/Marketing, or you majored in Graphic Design. Not both. Geez. It frustrates me highly.
My ex-boyfriend was a fantastic graphic designer and in no way was he a good copywriter. In fact, he was pretty terrible at it. I am a great copywriter but could never work those complicated design programs without some training, nor do I have skills in placing elements and creating good design. I think that employers are going to get someone who is fairly mediocre (to bad) at both if that's what they insist on.
I can do some basic design work but I can't do the fantastic design that graphic artists do. But I guess that's how the economy is...companies want to take advantage in any way they can.
LOL! Nice to see a fellow Marketing Communications person. I have a B.A. in Com and working on an M.S. in Integrated Marketing Communications. If you have a LinkedIn profile then let me know so we can talk. It sounds like you and I have many of the same ambitions in terms of journalism/writing/etc.
To the original poster, I do agree that it is a bit odd but I have seen it before. At my last job, I was hired as a "marketing assistant" but what I did most of the time was draw circles on maps, edit powerpoint presentations, secretary work, and a little graphics arts design. Does any of that sound like marketing? Maybe the power point presentation, but I think in today's new economy they want people who can do multiple jobs so they don't have to hire more people. My friend quit her job recently because they expected her to do the jobs of three people. Luckily, I worked in a technology job before then and was curious about playing around with MS Paint and Photoshop.
I think it's now b/c they want multi-taskers to save them money.
You couldn't be more wrong. Web Design is DESIGN. It requires first and foremost Illustrator/Photoshop and design skills, as well as a basic knowledge of html (which they teach 5th graders these days) and usually they want you to know how to use Dreamweaver, which is an easy to master WYSIWYG tool. There's nothing right sided about that. The differences between web and print design are pretty big but reading a couple of books will quickly help your figure it out. The basic tools are generally the same. (Dreamweaver replaces InDesign for example.)
Web development generally requires far less design and far more coding.
And some people can do both. I consider myself first and foremost a designer, but I took classes and learned all the programming and scripting as well. I am a left brain thinker, so it wasn't easy for me to learn the programming/coding end (I washed out with Java) but it can be done if you put your mind to it. I did cross over from the design to the programming side, and stayed there for five years before deciding that no amount of money was worth being that miserable for.
I don't think that you could be more wrong and after reading your post I had to sign up just to respond.
I received my BA in Graphic Design in 2004. There were absolutely, positively, NO web design classes even being OFFERED if you were going for your Graphic Design degree. You had to have a strong foundation in fine art (photography, oil/acrylic/watercolor painting, sculpture, color theory, etc.) on top of learning extremely difficult and complex design programs like Quark (god I hate Quark. Thank you InDesign!), Photoshop, Illustrator, etc., etc., etc. You had to know the difference between RGB vs. CMYK, Book Printing, Newspaper, Magazine, Postcards, Business Cards, Screen Printing and the proper printing resolution and layout for all of them.
Every job I had until I was laid off last year had a DESIGNER and an ENGINEER/CODER. Sure, I'd design web pages and know the proper way to lay out a web page and import photos at the proper resolution and format, but I couldn't code my way out of a paper bag. I worked for an extremely large, well known company so I'm not just talking about a place that didn't know what they were doing. Everyone had to be very good at their job and focus on their skills to constantly improve and stay ahead of the curve in order to be competitive. Nowadays when I'm looking for a Graphic Design/Web Artist position they're ALL asking for a "mastery" of HTML/CSS coding, Flash, Dreamweaver, etc., etc., etc. Sure, I know a small amount of Flash and animation programs and can easily improve those skills, but WHEN did Graphic Design become Web Design??
Previous posters are right. They're two completely different sides of your brain that conflict with one another. I'm good at art and design but it's impossible to find a decent paying job, let alone one that I'm actually qualified for. Now, every Highschool/Jr. High student with a pirated copy of Photoshop is calling themselves a "Graphic Designer" and telling companies that they'll do "Job X" or "Job Y" for a rate that someone with a degree can't compete with or earn a living on.
I now have to go back to school to get my Master's (which I don't mind) but until then I'm stuck on unemployment because I can't afford to get off it! I make more on UI than I would taking the jobs that are being offered for $10 or $12 an hour! I made more than that when I was 17 working at a grocery store... in 1997.
So do I agree with you? No.
Do I think it's possible that there are rarities of people that can do both? Absolutely.
Should it be the norm to require one person to do two or three people's jobs half-assed because they can't focus on one thing really well? No.
Sorry for the rant. I'm just tired of looking for a job and seeing employers taking advantage of the current economy.
I don't think that you could be more wrong and after reading your post I had to sign up just to respond.
I received my BA in Graphic Design in 2004. There were absolutely, positively, NO web design classes even being OFFERED if you were going for your Graphic Design degree. You had to have a strong foundation in fine art (photography, oil/acrylic/watercolor painting, sculpture, color theory, etc.) on top of learning extremely difficult and complex design programs like Quark (god I hate Quark. Thank you InDesign!), Photoshop, Illustrator, etc., etc., etc. You had to know the difference between RGB vs. CMYK, Book Printing, Newspaper, Magazine, Postcards, Business Cards, Screen Printing and the proper printing resolution and layout for all of them.
Every job I had until I was laid off last year had a DESIGNER and an ENGINEER/CODER. Sure, I'd design web pages and know the proper way to lay out a web page and import photos at the proper resolution and format, but I couldn't code my way out of a paper bag. I worked for an extremely large, well known company so I'm not just talking about a place that didn't know what they were doing. Everyone had to be very good at their job and focus on their skills to constantly improve and stay ahead of the curve in order to be competitive. Nowadays when I'm looking for a Graphic Design/Web Artist position they're ALL asking for a "mastery" of HTML/CSS coding, Flash, Dreamweaver, etc., etc., etc. Sure, I know a small amount of Flash and animation programs and can easily improve those skills, but WHEN did Graphic Design become Web Design??
Previous posters are right. They're two completely different sides of your brain that conflict with one another. I'm good at art and design but it's impossible to find a decent paying job, let alone one that I'm actually qualified for. Now, every Highschool/Jr. High student with a pirated copy of Photoshop is calling themselves a "Graphic Designer" and telling companies that they'll do "Job X" or "Job Y" for a rate that someone with a degree can't compete with or earn a living on.
I now have to go back to school to get my Master's (which I don't mind) but until then I'm stuck on unemployment because I can't afford to get off it! I make more on UI than I would taking the jobs that are being offered for $10 or $12 an hour! I made more than that when I was 17 working at a grocery store... in 1997.
So do I agree with you? No.
Do I think it's possible that there are rarities of people that can do both? Absolutely.
Should it be the norm to require one person to do two or three people's jobs half-assed because they can't focus on one thing really well? No.
Sorry for the rant. I'm just tired of looking for a job and seeing employers taking advantage of the current economy.
After that rant, I'm not seeing how I am wrong. Maybe the college you went to school at didn't offer any web design/GUI classes for graphic design students, but by 2004 most of them did.
Why are all the graphocs jobs now requiring web skills? Frankly because print is shrinking rapidly, and it's all going web based. I'd strongly suggest that you develope the WEB BASED skills that you need, otherwise it's going to be a long, hungry life as a print designer.
And if you'd bother to READ what I said, web design is not web development. Web design is the GUI, the design, and web designers should need to know Dreamweaver just like they know InDesign (they are very similar programs.)
Web designers shouldn't need to have a deep knowledge of programming. A web designer shouldn't need Java, .net, etc. anymore than a web developer (who is a programmer) should need to be able to design with Illustrator.
So please, explain to me how I am wrong?
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