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Do you think Ayn Rand would have changed her philosophical positions?
Nah, she sounds like more than a few posters here (especially the ones in the Political subforum in terms of their take on the economy). Actually, I think she'd be Weekend Traveler/Brainy Intellectual Type, etc.
Well, with her images of businessmen (and Dagny and other heiresses) as the epitome of innovation, creation and integrity, I think she'd either have to change her tune or note that the current robber barons are none of the above.
It still bugged me that she couldn't seem to find a female character of the same caliber as the (several) hunky guys- they inherited or married wealth.
Now, the financial masters of the universe who helped make so much mess do not "create" anything. As Gordon Gekko said, "I don't create anything. I OWN." So I don't think Rand would think today's movers and shakers are models of integrity or innovation (maybe Jobs and Gates, but not financial people).
She obviously chose to ignore the tremendous corruption and human suffering involved in the great industrial fortunes of the 19th century, unless you think oppressing miners and auto workers and having child labor and poisoned food and such is just full of integrity.
Yes, I read Ayn Rand at a formative age. Is there any other time to do so?
There is a reason "objectivism" isn't taken seriously in philosophy departments.
Atlas Shrugged is an inspiring read though, if you can get through it. She has a lot of filler much like Dostoevsky, except Dostoevsky was a genius and Ayn Rand more of a cheerleader w/ a grudge against Russia.
Who cares what she would think. She was a dogmatist who lived in the world of perfect models applied perfectly to perfect worlds.
The current world isn't the world where her model can be applied perfectly, and without it being applied perfectly it won't work. Just like any system of government based on a strict model.
Frankly I'm tired of hearing every pundit with a neo-conservative agenda co-opt her philosophy and influence to promote it, while ignoring all the ways in which they're political candidates support policy which is the antithesis of what Raynd championed. The out-of-context paraphrasing of her philosophy is now used in a way that it was never intended, which is to shill for candidates who support corporations and policy that are decidedly anti-free market when it is in the corps favor, and support free market policy only when, again, it is in the corps favor.
Her bastardized philosophy has become pop-politics for the uninformed and uneducated.
While I love the philosophy, for low population density societies, it is currently being wholly abused in the media to help keep corporate profits up, and the quality of life for the poor down.
“I quit when medicine was placed under State control, some years ago,” said Dr. Hendricks. “Do you know what it takes to perform a brain operation? Do you know the kind of skill it demands, and the years of passionate, merciless, excruciating devotion that go to acquire that skill? THAT was what I would not place at the disposal of men whose sole qualification to rule me was their capacity to spout the fraudulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege of enforcing their wishes. I would not let them dictate the purpose for which my years of study had been spent, or the conditions of my work, or my choice of patients, or the amount of my reward. I observed that in all the discussion that preceded the enslavement of medicine, men discussed everything – except the desires of doctors. I have often wondered at the smugness with which people answer their right to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind – yet what is it that they expect to depend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Let them discover, in their operating rooms and hospital wards that it is not safe to place their lives in the hands of doctors whose livelihood they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of doctor who resents it – and still less safe if he is the sort who does not.”
Sound familiar with the health care reform discussion? Sound familiar with health insurance bureaucrats? Sound familiar with nurse practitioners playing doctors? While I don't agree with the general social Darwinian tone of Ayn Rand, there is some truth to the point that bureaucrats and lazy people do not appreciate genuine hard work and sacrifice. They think it's easy and that they could do it too, or that they could have someone else do it more cheaply, but are always shocked at the shoddy results.
I think Ayn Rand would see outsourcing as a bad thing, throwing away quality and home-grown talent for a cheap buck.
I think Ayn Rand would see outsourcing as a bad thing, throwing away quality and home-grown talent for a cheap buck.
I agree with this statement 100%. So who does that leave to save us if both the government and the so-called industrialists have looted us and/or abandoned us?
I'm prone to think that we must save ourselves, but as to how we shall accomplish this, I'm still not sure. It seems the only way this can happen is if we all become self-sufficient and rely primarily on a barter system (I trade my skills/goods for your skills/goods). Unfortunately, I don't see this happening in the near future.
“I quit when medicine was placed under State control, some years ago,” said Dr. Hendricks. “Do you know what it takes to perform a brain operation? Do you know the kind of skill it demands, and the years of passionate, merciless, excruciating devotion that go to acquire that skill? THAT was what I would not place at the disposal of men whose sole qualification to rule me was their capacity to spout the fraudulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege of enforcing their wishes. I would not let them dictate the purpose for which my years of study had been spent, or the conditions of my work, or my choice of patients, or the amount of my reward. I observed that in all the discussion that preceded the enslavement of medicine, men discussed everything – except the desires of doctors. I have often wondered at the smugness with which people answer their right to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind – yet what is it that they expect to depend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Let them discover, in their operating rooms and hospital wards that it is not safe to place their lives in the hands of doctors whose livelihood they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of doctor who resents it – and still less safe if he is the sort who does not.”
Sound familiar with the health care reform discussion? Sound familiar with health insurance bureaucrats? Sound familiar with nurse practitioners playing doctors? While I don't agree with the general social Darwinian tone of Ayn Rand, there is some truth to the point that bureaucrats and lazy people do not appreciate genuine hard work and sacrifice. They think it's easy and that they could do it too, or that they could have someone else do it more cheaply, but are always shocked at the shoddy results.
I think Ayn Rand would see outsourcing as a bad thing, throwing away quality and home-grown talent for a cheap buck.
The earned vs. the un-earned. America has become the inverse of what it was.
Rand wrote Shrugged in the 50's. Personally, I believe her essays, op-eds, speeches, and other sundry writings are the teeth behind her philosophy, and when taken as a whole are better than her novels. Piekoff's 'Ominous Parallels" was a tough read when I was younger and generally ignorant of philosophy and economics (as are most Americans), but Rand's stuff was a good primer before plowing through "Parallels".
Every person who works for a for-profit enterprise which is vulnerable to such stuff is justifiably concerned. My take is most American companies are mismanaged to begin with, so when their business model and management of the work site gets so bad they can't sustain it here in the states, they'll do the simple thing and either A) Outsource (all permutations of such), or B) Move the whole shebang to China or somewhere else in Asia.
U.S. manufacturing has been slow to grasp management and quality concepts which other countries (like Japan) have been using since the 50's. American companies take the lazy approach to management. Hey, but Barack and his cronies love to help out their union and well-connected breathren, though, don't they? Rand believed in government having a limited role in American enterprise.
Today, it's GE, GM, Chrysler, and other large companies getting sweet deals from the Feds. If that ain't Fascism, I don't know whst is.
Couple this with high corporate taxes, burdensome regulations, high health care costs, a host of other costs, and the threat of lawsuits, it's no wonder some of these companies struggle to keep the doors open.
Rand would say, "I told you so!". The government spending, control of the money supply by a select few, out of control manipulation of the banking and financial industries (this has been going on for decades), payoffs to members of Congress, etc., etc., etc., are a a large part of what happened.
Stupid sound bites ("BOOOoooossshhh', "greed", etc.), make for good copy and 30 sec. "news" stories on CNN, but when it comes down to brass tacks much of this recession was caused by the government itself. That's OK, Treasury and the Fed will keep printing money (all the while borrowing more from China and the House of Saud), such that the dollar will probably be worthless in about 2-3 years.
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Last edited by HowardRoarke; 11-23-2009 at 02:07 AM..
As Ms. Magazine said many years ago, "In Ayn Rand's world, you can never be too thin or too rich."
Yet her women were still "wives of" or heiresses
On the other hand, supposedly Galt's Gulch was based on one of my favorite places in the whole world, Ouray, Colorado.
As Ms. Magazine said many years ago, "In Ayn Rand's world, you can never be too thin or too rich."
Yet her women were still "wives of" or heiresses
On the other hand, supposedly Galt's Gulch was based on one of my favorite places in the whole world, Ouray, Colorado.
Yeah, I moved to Colorado BECAUSE of Atlas Shrugged...Haha j/k. It is a beautiful state though.
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