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Old 11-23-2009, 01:31 AM
 
31 posts, read 151,596 times
Reputation: 28

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This is a email from a Australian acquintance! Everyone knows how much all american businesses have to strive to reach thier American Dream!

Tipping is mostly a con by owners of businesses to transfer a large portion of fair wage and salary costs to the customer. In the US tipping now has nothing to do with service and service is generally worse than every other country with or without a tip. I resent having my bag whisked away at airports by porters or at hotel desks on the pretence of service for carrying it a few metres or 'showing me the room' and where the light switches are. The US should pay reasonable wages and train staff to provide a standard service not outsource the services to desperate underpaid workers. The scourge has been spread by ignorance to many countries around the world to the point where workers are prepared to pay to be given a job at places where tips can easily be extracted from guests and visitors. The price for a room, meal or other services should always be the total cost reflecting fair wages for all the staff involved. The notion that somehow people in poor countries win from receiving tips is fanciful. I have lived and worked in some poor countries in Africa, Asia,South America and visited many others and it usual the better-off (a job at the airport, hotel, restaurant) and hucksters who have their hands out for tips - the poor do not benefit. Sadly the tourism industry is being spoilt by the tipping culture with increasingly aggressive,rude staff demanding tips for standard services. Waiters stand-over us after the in my view generous tip did not meet their obsequious expectations despite ordinary food and service. Taxi drivers who demand a tip despite my lifting the bags into & out of the cab. Tours in China & Morocco where extraordinary tips were suggested by the agents.
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:04 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,152,963 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by aluva View Post
This is a email from a Australian acquintance! Everyone knows how much all american businesses have to strive to reach thier American Dream!

Tipping is mostly a con by owners of businesses to transfer a large portion of fair wage and salary costs to the customer. In the US tipping now has nothing to do with service and service is generally worse than every other country with or without a tip. I resent having my bag whisked away at airports by porters or at hotel desks on the pretence of service for carrying it a few metres or 'showing me the room' and where the light switches are. The US should pay reasonable wages and train staff to provide a standard service not outsource the services to desperate underpaid workers. The scourge has been spread by ignorance to many countries around the world to the point where workers are prepared to pay to be given a job at places where tips can easily be extracted from guests and visitors. The price for a room, meal or other services should always be the total cost reflecting fair wages for all the staff involved. The notion that somehow people in poor countries win from receiving tips is fanciful. I have lived and worked in some poor countries in Africa, Asia,South America and visited many others and it usual the better-off (a job at the airport, hotel, restaurant) and hucksters who have their hands out for tips - the poor do not benefit. Sadly the tourism industry is being spoilt by the tipping culture with increasingly aggressive,rude staff demanding tips for standard services. Waiters stand-over us after the in my view generous tip did not meet their obsequious expectations despite ordinary food and service. Taxi drivers who demand a tip despite my lifting the bags into & out of the cab. Tours in China & Morocco where extraordinary tips were suggested by the agents.
So you post one thing one friend of yours wrote and expect that to make a difference?

Tipped workers make less in America than Europe. If there wasn't tipping, the cost of services would be higher.

What's the big deal? Stop complaining about everything American. If you don't like it, go live in Europe. We don't complain about the coldness of European servers (would it kill them to ask how the meal is a few times?), so why would you complain about this?
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Texas
475 posts, read 1,639,331 times
Reputation: 251
Aluva, Tipping is an option, you don't have to tip anyone.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Michaux State Forest
1,275 posts, read 3,401,275 times
Reputation: 1441
Quote:
Originally Posted by aluva View Post
My point is Tips or not, if waiters atleast take home minimum wage.I have seen hundreds of people say , they dont make minimum wage! To put it simply I guess the public dont understand numbers !
It's not the public that "don't" understand, it's you. As someone who worked as a server, I can attest to the fact servers(at least in my state) only make $2.13 per hour from their employer. Obviously this means that tips are vital to a server. It is VERY hard work and anyone who begrudges what a server makes is a moron. Btw, I don't know any servers who collect welfare.
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:00 PM
 
31 posts, read 151,596 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilred0005 View Post
It's not the public that "don't" understand, it's you. As someone who worked as a server, I can attest to the fact servers(at least in my state) only make $2.13 per hour from their employer. Obviously this means that tips are vital to a server. It is VERY hard work and anyone who begrudges what a server makes is a moron. Btw, I don't know any servers who collect welfare.
I am taking only about the states where the following law applies, I dont know if you can get that former server!May be you cannot even comprehend the below.

The following is from the U.S. Dept. Of Labors web-site regarding wages for tipped employees.

A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.
What ca make you of the above law? I dont know how much you can understand of the above!

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm#foot1 (broken link)

The department of Labor website. Its tables , I dont know if you can figure anythig out of it! Obviously you dont have ay awareness of things outside your state whatever that is!


Why are people so dumb?

Last edited by aluva; 11-26-2009 at 04:18 PM..
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Southern California
3,113 posts, read 8,348,070 times
Reputation: 3721
aluva, I'm certain that the poster you're berating understands the system - after all, he or she was a server - if anyone would understand the way it works, it would be someone who has done the work!

Clearly there's a misunderstanding - and I also get that you're shocked by the idea that servers make more than minimum wage in the United States - but believe me, that's the way it is here, and for the most part American's are happy with it. Because the work pays well, you get better servers - basic logic there!

I was a server for a very long time, and I made very good money - it got me through college and beyond! Would i have done it if it had paid just minimum wage? No. I loved it because I was able to make a lot of money, working part-time.

So the servers are happy, because they make good money, the customers are happy because they get better service - it's a system that for the most part works!

I've spent time in Europe, and the system there works as well - it's different - but it does work. Different strokes for different folks, and all that!
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:48 AM
 
8,652 posts, read 17,178,998 times
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My question is and it is only a question.

To those of you that say you have known several servers and none have ever gotten food stamps. Just How would you know that, do you follow them around all of the time, do ask them if they get food stamps?

I know if I was a server I wouldn't publish it in the local paper if I was getting food stamps.

Nothing wrong with anyone getting them if they really need them. I'm just wondering how you would know about such a private matter.
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:29 PM
 
26,585 posts, read 61,800,013 times
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Let's see, in one case she was my housemate and we did our shopping together and split the bill. I think I would have known if she were using food stamps. In another case it was a friend who I drove to the store every week because she didn't have a car. Again I think I would have noticed if she were paying with food stamps.

Another friend of mine is a server in a restaurant and has two foster kids (her niece and nephew). She gets food stamps for the kids--which is typical in this state and has nothing to do with the foster families income, the state autometically gives food stamps and medicaid for foster kids. She's been very forthcoming about the fact that she gets the assisitance for the foster kids, and how it's kind of a pain because she has to take the two foster kids to a different doctor from her two bio kids because the foster kids doctor doesn't accept the private insurance the bio kids have, and the bio kids doctor won't take medi.

Another friend would probably be eligible, but she does Angelfood Ministries to stretch her food budget.

Most of my server friends are married to people who make a good income so there's no way they'd qualify.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:00 PM
 
6 posts, read 7,934 times
Reputation: 13
i feel 99.9% of you are arguing about pointless ****. to state my rant about this i shall start with under reporting. 1. income is not defined in the income tax laws. 2. "income"i as defined by the supreme court states income is personal property and is not taxable. I would recommend anyone who works, tips or not, to get out of claiming it as "income". For its an actual trade, my time in exchange for money. people who say, they dont claim times hurts Anyone is completely delusional. someone above already stated that the war people seem to be having with servers and customers is really between owners of company and servers. I can hire someone to clean my air ducts. IF i give them a tip for great service, why doesn't he have to claim it? This whole claim that not reporting tips is bad is nothingy but bull****. I have served for over 7 yrs, and quite frankly. I wish everyone would stop tipping ( or atleast change the word so the legal system doesnt own it) so that the company owners are forced to pay their employee's justly. If the server sucks, fire them. Would you go to barns and noble and think your spending 70$ on a book, but then you find out you are expected to give them more for it? wtf is that ****? pay the employee at least minimum because you HIRED THEM. then if the person that you serve loves your service, you give them extra. thats why its called a tip. the whole concept of forcing to calim income is illegal to begin with. anyone who fights over this small **** is missing the damn point. income tax is unconstitutional but you peons are arguing about who has to pay it.... wake up and fight the guards not the other convicts.

companies were invented a few hundred years ago to divert the responsibilities of the owner. hence why the companies are l.l.c. limited liability corporations. You as a human have 100% responsibilities to your actions. companies do not. it is actually illegal to contract between the two because of this. owners hid behind a piece of paper in a filing cabinet (the company) so that they can get away with what ever they can. 99.999% of this problem comes from contracts that you are forced to sign if you want a roof over your head, or food on the table. YOu are forced to claim to be a UNITED STATES (privately owned company) citizen, which is actually claiming that you an employee of a foreign corporation. this is due to the fact that the UNITED STATES is in Washington dc. which is technically outside of the united states of america. so stating you are a citizen means you are an employee of that company, and are required to follow the corporations codes (NOT LAWS), such as income tax, or even traffic tickets. (contract with the dmv). its a way to force civilians into unconstitutional contracts (but are legal if you want them to be and sign them) so they give up their rights. (the simple fact that corporate codes are passed without voting or congress concent should be a huge flag raiser to most, not to mention the use of the word LAW when referring to codes or statutes.)

arguing over tipping someone is not of concern. it seems like to me, arguing over tipped employees is like getting into a wreck, then arguing over who has the biggest shoes.


income tax is illegal, federal regulations state a bank can't loan out its own assets (deposits are assets), personal income is not taxable and you people are arguing over 3 dollars for a meal.... amazing... nothing works the way 99.999% of people think. often times i find it humorous and entertaining to listen to this type of monologue. but other times it is frustrating. this is one of those times

much love though. i hope i didnt offend someone personally, it was not intended
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,652 posts, read 6,941,428 times
Reputation: 7323
I'd be delighted to see tipping disappear and to have restaurants compete for skilled servers through straight wages and/or salary/benefits as is done in Europe, where being a waiter or a bartender or barista is acknowledged and accepted as being an actual profession instead of a transitional position to something better. Then you'd have a lovely system in the US where the crappiest servers filter down to the crappiest restaurants and the better servers filter up to the better restaurants. Everyone pretty much wins.

I'd also love to see the concept of the 'coperto' instituted in the US to cover the cost of all that free bread and chips/salsa or whatever else is put on the table for free so that the entrees become less expensive and/or use better ingredients.
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