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And what will that get you? I'm actually interested in knowing what you think that a "revolution" will do? Will it create jobs? Explain how. Or are you actually saying that you want a socialist government that takes wealth from people who worked hard and saved their money, and redistributes it to everyone--even the slacker kid down the street who lives in his parents basement and smokes pot all day while claiming to be looking for a job.
He didn't say "socialist" revolution.
I think we do need another revolution if we can't vote out the corrupt politicians running us into the ground.
The American revolution wasn't socialist at all, and they were objecting to far less taxes than we're in for now.
Well I don't know what revolution the other poster is suggesting, but I'm all for one that throws out the current politicians and gets us back closer to what the original founders of this country had in mind. Much lower taxes for one. Much less internationalism, the government trade "deals" which promote the sending of jobs out of the country. I think we need tariffs on foreign products.
They thought almost exactly this in the late 70s/early 80s too (though the debt wasn't nearly as high relative to GDP). No one's saying we'll be back to full employment, etc. a year from now, just that I think it will be a little better.
But I'll give you something that could be a bad sign. Japan, who had been showing some slight improvements before us, did announce a couple of days ago that UE is getting worse again. And Canada has too. It will be interesting to see if Australia and Germany (who also "reversed" before us) follow suit which would be a bad sign.
Huh?....did you live that era as an adult? I did - and I can tell you it was nothing like this. And there was very little consensus that those tough times were going to last very long.
There are good reasons for today's gloom and doom that weren't the case then. Corporate America, driven by greed void of foresight and conscience and given a wink and a nod during the Reagan years, has removed the nation's oil drain plug and our wealth now flows unabated overseas along with America's future.
Huh?....did you live that era as an adult? I did - and I can tell you it was nothing like this. And there was very little consensus that those tough times were going to last very long.
There are good reasons for today's gloom and doom that weren't the case then. Corporate America, driven by greed void of foresight and conscience and given a wink and a nod during the Reagan years, has removed the nation's oil drain plug and our wealth now flows unabated overseas along with America's future.
No, I was a teenager then, but I remember a lot of people (especially those in blue collar jobs as well as those living in/near NY City given all the municipal financial troubles similar to the California (and NY State for that matter) of today) thinking that way (I was a pretty bright and observant teen). And one thing then worse than now was that you had borderline hyper-inflation on top of all the troubles. Many people thought of New York City (yes, big "world city" NY City) the way people think of Detroit today, to the point that it lost over 10% of it's population (almost 1 MILLION PEOPLE) from 1970 to 1980, and not to the suburbs for the most part either. Now that doesn't mean I think Detroit will bounce back the way NYC did, but again, there are some similarities.
Note that I did say "almost", not exactly, if you read my posts on this in other threads I do think some things are different and troubling today; for example, the high degree of "offshoring". Or the level of the national debt vs. GDP (though we did have deficits then too, though they were just getting started). And obviously, although the burden of health care was on business then too, it didn't take nearly as much a bite.
Huh?....did you live that era as an adult? I did - and I can tell you it was nothing like this. And there was very little consensus that those tough times were going to last very long.
There are good reasons for today's gloom and doom that weren't the case then. Corporate America, driven by greed void of foresight and conscience and given a wink and a nod during the Reagan years, has removed the nation's oil drain plug and our wealth now flows unabated overseas along with America's future.
I wonder how long people were laid off back then on average compared with today.
My dad and two of my brothers were laid off for the first time in their lives in the late 1970's but for my brothers it was about two weeks and for my dad it was about a month. This time it's longer periods of lay off before they get called back. It seems many people are going longer before being called back but for many it's not about being called back to the same workplace, it's about leaving a type of work altogether, finding a new career.
I don't know how it really compares with what took place back then, but I think there are a number of factors that are different now. It's not that things aren't being manufactured, people today buy more things than they ever have, but manufacturing isn't done in the USA now.
I don't know how easy it would be for manufacturing to come back. Not with so many factories shut down, machines rusting away. It's not something that could happen overnight even if the powers that be decided another course for the USA. We'd need to retool, we'd need someone to invest in the machines again and training -- for example tool and die makers who make the machines have been out of work for years now and it's not a field that can be trained up in a week, we're already falling more and more behind in the technology it takes.
I wonder how long people were laid off back then on average compared with today.
My dad and two of my brothers were laid off for the first time in their lives in the late 1970's but for my brothers it was about two weeks and for my dad it was about a month. This time it's longer periods of lay off before they get called back. It seems many people are going longer before being called back but for many it's not about being called back to the same workplace, it's about leaving a type of work altogether, finding a new career.
I don't know how it really compares with what took place back then, but I think there are a number of factors that are different now. It's not that things aren't being manufactured, people today buy more things than they ever have, but manufacturing isn't done in the USA now.
I don't know how easy it would be for manufacturing to come back. Not with so many factories shut down, machines rusting away. It's not something that could happen overnight even if the powers that be decided another course for the USA. We'd need to retool, we'd need someone to invest in the machines again and training -- for example tool and die makers who make the machines have been out of work for years now and it's not a field that can be trained up in a week, we're already falling more and more behind in the technology it takes.
And how do we compete cost-wise with China for manufacturing for that matter.......that's why we have no manufacturing to begin with.
Huh?....did you live that era as an adult? I did - and I can tell you it was nothing like this. And there was very little consensus that those tough times were going to last very long.
There are good reasons for today's gloom and doom that weren't the case then. Corporate America, driven by greed void of foresight and conscience and given a wink and a nod during the Reagan years, has removed the nation's oil drain plug and our wealth now flows unabated overseas along with America's future.
I did too and in the end it has nothing to do with what presdient is ;was in power. its the economy of the area and whether it changes or not. The econmy just changes over times and some areas are stuck in the one industry or one type of work ;just like the 70's. many I am afraidf wil not come back and if they do it qwill take decades. When we talk greed you can look form wall street to mainstreet ;its theire and always has veen and will be. Its human nature to point the finger at someone else. I alos think that we will soon see people wantign another Reagan to rein in governamnt spending as the price of the government debt starts to be seen in future years. Liike a credit card it does hurt until you get the bill.
I wonder how long people were laid off back then on average compared with today.
My dad and two of my brothers were laid off for the first time in their lives in the late 1970's but for my brothers it was about two weeks and for my dad it was about a month. This time it's longer periods of lay off before they get called back. It seems many people are going longer before being called back but for many it's not about being called back to the same workplace, it's about leaving a type of work altogether, finding a new career.
They were the exception to the case. Many people were laid off for a year or more during that time. The UAW/AFL-CIO strikes caused a LOT of jobs to be lost in that time frame--people who weren't even part of those unions permanently lost jobs because of the strikes. When a union goes on strike for six months or more, their suppliers suffer too, and many of the smaller companies never recover and fold.
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I don't know how it really compares with what took place back then, but I think there are a number of factors that are different now. It's not that things aren't being manufactured, people today buy more things than they ever have, but manufacturing isn't done in the USA now.
I keep hearing this, but I'm not sure I agree. Yes, the big steel mills might be closed. And large corporations that spew toxins into the environment during their manufacturing process have moved to China to avoid the environmental restrictions they ahve to abide by here--maybe a mixed blessing? But there is still a ton of light industrial and small manufacturing companies. Within two miles of my job there are at least 50 small companies that do light manufacturing that emplyee 6-250 people each. Some of them have help wanted signs out right now, looking for machinists, welders, electricians, mechanics. Instead of walking into the employment office in the big factory, people need to use word of mouth to learn about jobs these days--I know for sure that none of those positions are advertised.
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I don't know how easy it would be for manufacturing to come back. Not with so many factories shut down, machines rusting away. It's not something that could happen overnight even if the powers that be decided another course for the USA. We'd need to retool, we'd need someone to invest in the machines again and training -- for example tool and die makers who make the machines have been out of work for years now and it's not a field that can be trained up in a week, we're already falling more and more behind in the technology it takes.
Other than some of the big companies in the rust belt, I'm not sure how much of it has actually left. It's just repositioned itself, and instead of being a huge corporate conglamorate, it's now a small business enterprise.
And how do we compete cost-wise with China for manufacturing for that matter.......that's why we have no manufacturing to begin with.
We do have manufacturing, it's just not in the huge mills anymore. Small business is the new model in this country. In all honeesty it's a better model. If a single small business folds, 50 people are out of work--and under normal circumstances, most of those 50 people should fairly easily find new jobs. (The bosses slacker nephew that really didn't do anything might not, but there will always be people unemployed for cause.) If a huge factory folds, thousands are out of work, and as they stop spending, thousands more will be out of work. And small businesses aren't going to be off-shoring work, it's being done right here in the US. Small business creates jobs, large business sends them overseas.
Last edited by annerk; 12-28-2009 at 05:13 AM..
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