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Old 01-22-2010, 09:22 PM
 
10 posts, read 27,154 times
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I am a 42 year old late bloomer (no degree/weak resume) looking for a prospective edu/career path that will work in today's market. I am planning on finishing college (approx 2 yrs) out of pocket so it's crucial not to make any mistakes. I wasted a lot of years with dead end jobs and career paths so please share your success stories. Feel free to include careers w/o degrees..
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,338 posts, read 93,440,962 times
Reputation: 17827
Engineering. You get the most for the least. You can get an EE with a 2.0. (And you'll be the boss - in engineering, the 4.0 GPA guys work for the 2.0 GPA guys because the 2.0 guys were out partying in college and developed social skills and they end up becoming managers). Interesting, challenging work, problem solving, generally intelligent working environment, great benefits, travel to interesting places. Engineering also helps you immensely in your day to day life: Fix things, analyze things, decision making, process oriented.

Get a job with a security clearance. You can avoid having your job offshored to this guy for example

(public domain photo - not protected)
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:52 AM
 
768 posts, read 937,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Engineering. You get the most for the least. You can get an EE with a 2.0. (And you'll be the boss - in engineering, the 4.0 GPA guys work for the 2.0 GPA guys because the 2.0 guys were out partying in college and developed social skills and they end up becoming managers). Interesting, challenging work, problem solving, generally intelligent working environment, great benefits, travel to interesting places. Engineering also helps you immensely in your day to day life: Fix things, analyze things, decision making, process oriented.

Get a job with a security clearance. You can avoid having your job offshored to this guy for example

(public domain photo - not protected)
Could you elaborate? I'm a physics guy who always considered making the switch, but it's tough to envision the day-to-day. I find this true with all math and science. Just as it's impossible to explain to a liberal arts major how one can get great comfort in xyz physics equation, it seems impossible to explain engineering without actually doing it. It's like a completely new language. I have read a plethora of 101 EE stuff and gotten nowhere.

How did you know engineering was for you when surely you didn't really have a clue what you were realistically getting into, unless you had knowledge unknown to me?

Thanks.
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:00 AM
 
Location: uNDERwORLD
96 posts, read 269,505 times
Reputation: 102
economics degree
commercial real estate
equities
forex
gold
silver
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:26 AM
NSX
 
877 posts, read 2,159,237 times
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I took kind of a strange path, but it ended up working out pretty well. I got a computer science degree, then I started out as a software engineer and had big dreams working on Wall Street so I got my MBA. Started there and then just ended up hating the corporate culture and found the work extremely boring and left.

However, I was fortunate enough to have my old employer ask for me back, and I leveraged the MBA to get a position of the Team Lead Software Engineer with a higher salary than both previous jobs. If I wouldn't have been able to go back, I don't really know what I'd be doing now.

So I guess the moral of the story is to not just run away from an industry you love and you're good at, just because the salaries in another field are higher. If you love what you do and have talent, the money will follow in most fields. You don't need to be a big-shot Wall Street banker to be doing well.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,338 posts, read 93,440,962 times
Reputation: 17827
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkin about it View Post
Could you elaborate? I'm a physics guy who always considered making the switch, but it's tough to envision the day-to-day. I find this true with all math and science. Just as it's impossible to explain to a liberal arts major how one can get great comfort in xyz physics equation, it seems impossible to explain engineering without actually doing it. It's like a completely new language. I have read a plethora of 101 EE stuff and gotten nowhere.

How did you know engineering was for you when surely you didn't really have a clue what you were realistically getting into, unless you had knowledge unknown to me?

Thanks.
Engineering day to day is 1/3 as technically difficult as college. Also, the university you attend isn't as important for engineering as it is for something like law or business, professions in which connections are made. Your college probably affects your first job. After that it is almost all the specific skills you have and your attitude (Do you care about doing a good job).

Engineering hours are very flexible, 6-230 if you want, or 9-6 if you want. Major companies actually encourage people to work at home - prohibited if you have classified work to do of course. Most engineering companies pay for advanced degrees. The big companies will relocate you - and you'll actually make money doing it.

Engineering isn't that high stress. Most engineers are regular guys - except a lot of them could be characterized such that they have a high ratio of income to vehicle worth. It isn't unusual to have engineers making $140K driving $3000 cars - in fact it's very common.

For salary, most engineering companies have a low standard deviation for merit increases. That is, an average guy gets a 3% raise, an all star maybe a 5% raise and a slacker gets a 1% to 2% raise. The way to increase your salary is to change companies every five years or so for the first 15 or 20 years. Each time you change companies you can get over a 20% raise (I got two 22% raises in 14 months once).

One final thing I'll add before my edit minutes run out, is the demographics favor people in their 40s. I am 48 and when I attend meetings I am often the youngest guy in the room. A lot of gray haired guys there. In five or ten years they'll be posting on City-Data for their retirement activities and I'll be taking their jobs.

Chapter 3: Science and Engineering Workforce: Age and Retirement

Last edited by Charles; 01-23-2010 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:58 AM
 
782 posts, read 3,780,105 times
Reputation: 399
I worked 12 years doing Machine work. Working on Extruders, Printing Press, Web converting slitters, Mixing batches of chemicals from 40 gallons to 2200 gallons. I got tired of that field of work, got a CDL for $3000 and became a San Man. Now I have a career that require no thinking and pays very well.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,041 posts, read 83,864,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo467 View Post
I am a 42 year old late bloomer (no degree/weak resume) looking for a prospective edu/career path that will work in today's market. I am planning on finishing college (approx 2 yrs) out of pocket so it's crucial not to make any mistakes. I wasted a lot of years with dead end jobs and career paths so please share your success stories. Feel free to include careers w/o degrees..
I'm not rich, but I can pay my bills and am paying for some of my daughter's college, and have a little left to save. I do not have a college degree, so it took me longer to get there than some who do; however, now I make more money than some of my coworkers who do have degrees. (I went back to school for a while, but math was required and the part of my brain that can learn algebra is apparently non-functional--I could not even pass the remedial non-credit math course that was required for me to move on. Besides that, I hate formal schooling and have trouble staying awake in a classroom, although I have continued to self-educate in many subjects.)

In the ancient days when I was young, there was this thing called secretarial school where you learned to type and take dictation using something called shorthand. I went to a year-long course and when I graduated I got a good job as a secretary for a project manager on a construction site with a public transportation agency. Because I was a good writer, I volunteered to be the backup for the person who prepared the documents requesting authorization for construction projects from the board of commissioners. When she was going out on maternity leave, they told me I was going to fill in for her--and I said, nicely, of course--"Oh really? You are going to pay me as a secretary to fill a management position?" and lo, I was promoted into the management ranks.

I continued in that same vein--asking questions of engineers and management and learning everything about the public contracting process that I could and taking work above my level until the situation was right where I was holding an ace--knowing the work and being able to negotiate a promotion because of it. I never pulled the "that's not MY job" attitude.

I like my job, and I have acquired a wealth of knowledge in everything from how contaminated soil is remediated under an active runway to the process for taking property under eminent domain to different types of bridge construction, because I have done bid and RFP processes for all of those things, although I'm not an expert in any of them. I also believe I was successful because I always always asked the experts questions about their projects--it's the old Johnny Carson method--ask people questions and let them talk about what they do because first and foremost people love to talk about themselves and what they do, and in return, they remember you.
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,802 posts, read 14,863,633 times
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I've written about my career and the path I took to get here rather extensively even putting together a a small, but not yet completed, website about it.

First thing to accept is not everyone is college material and when I say that we need to recognize as well that not being college material doesn't mean you're stupid, it just means you don't like the traditional college route.

I attended San Jose State for one year, I hated it and my grades (ugh!) trumpeted my total lack of interest. Let's just say I did horribly to the extent I've never mentioned the one year on any resume.

But I knew I wasn't stupid. I've taken several IQ tests over the years and on two I know were professionally administered (one by US Army for entrance into Officer Candidate School the other by a psychologist for job placement) scoring 124 on the army test and 128 on the one administered by the psychologist. 124 put me into the top 7% while 128 put me into the top 4%.

About the army (just to prove I was smart). I made OCS and was waiting for a class date. doing the temporary cadre sergeant thing in charge of a training platoon, when I read an article discussing the first year casualty rate among new lieutenants in Vietnam and mom didn't give birth to no dummies. I told the battalion commander I didn't want to be an infantry officer and two and a half weeks later I found myself on the ground in Vietnam. Hard to imagine the military acting this fast but in my case they sure did. Had the meeting at 11:00 AM and at 6:00 PM that evening I was on a plane going home for a two week leave with orders to report for overseas in hand.

The casualty rate, wounded or killed, (1968) was over 50% in the first year and like I said mom didn't give birth to a dummy.

After the army I had the GI bill so I tried college. I was still not 21 years old having been drafted right out of high school to spend 19 months in the military. Drafted meant 2 years but when returning from Vietnam if you had 5 or less months to serve they just let you go. Waiting for my OCS class date and chewed up the time so when I returned I had one week less than five months so they just sent me home.

I went over as a combat medic and spent one year as a field combat medic with the First Infantry Division around Lai Khe which was about 40 miles north of Saigon in the Michelin Rubber Plantation which was the iron triangle. Six days before I got home I was literally in the boonies pulling an ambush along an infiltration trail and the day I got home was the last day to register for classes so off I went, still dressed in uniform, to sign up for classes.

It was kind of cool, one of the admissions people asked why I was so late signing up, that most of the classes were already full, so I showed her my discharge papers showing I had been in the jungle a week before and still taking anti-maliaria pills, she took personal charge making sure I got every single class I wanted.

Like most of the class I couldn't buy beer yet (but the army made sure I had all I wanted) but I no longer fit in.

I quite college and knocked around for a year then took up flying lessons the GI bill paid for. Got my commercial pilots license, instrumet, multi-engine ratings followed by a primary and advanced flight instructors license. Worked as a flight instructor, charter and ferry pilot for about six years and that I loved. There are very few places I haven't been from Panama to northern Canada, from Maine to Alaska and California.

The pay really sucked but I had free access to a lot of fancy and expensive toys. The pay really sucke and I lived on $400 to $600 a month living in a rental dump and lacking money when I dated we always flew somewhere exciting for a cheap lunch or dinner.

Most of my dates were in a B55 Baron

The early Baron 55, 55A and 55B were fitted with 260 hp (194 kW) Continental IO-470 engines and had gross weights of 4880 to 5100 lb (2,200 to 2,300 kg). These had a typical cruise speed of 190 knots (350 km/h) at 7000 ft (2100 m), and came with 116 or 136 US gallon (440 or 515 L) fuel tanks.

190 knots is 218 mph so to really impress going to the beach to get a hamburger on the boardwalk 300 miles away wasn't out of the question. This was a great perk when working for a cheap paying company.

Today a new Baron sells for $1 million dollars so a grand toy that few had access to it was.

Flight instructors had a special bond, we were all poor and desparate, all waiting for an airline job to materialize, and being one you could always borrow a flight instructors car if you'd put gas in it. We were so poor we'd sell our mothers for $10 if we had the chance.

Dating like this was cheaper than a dinner and a movie because i didn't have to pay for the movie.

I was poor but I wasn't boring.

I have many fond memoriies of that time in my life.

On one of these dates I met the special one I would spend the rest of my life with and recognized we wouldn't make it with me remaining a ferry pilot and flight instructor. My future wife had a job as a clerk and made twice as much as I did.

The plus side of the job is you were introduced to a lot of people outside the aviation community that had money and businesses. One of my flight students heard I was looking for something better and offered me a job as a trainee designing sprinkler systems.

The pay to start was double what I was making at the airport and I took that job. I continued working as a part time flight instructor for about 6 years after.

In retrospect it was a great move for me. That is how I ended up where I am not 34 years later. I've never had to worry about having a job, I've never been unemployed for more than 24 hours and even in my 60's I know I woudln't have a problem finding a job even in the recession we are enjoying now. That's a big plus in todays employment market especially when you consider the highest educational degree I have is high school.

One is indeed fortunate when you can say you would do everything over again exactly like you did if given the chance. I am one of the fortunate ones.

Today the field is getting to where a two year degree will be required but I am aware of only three community colleges that offer the training and in practical terms it is the only way to get into the industry now.

The industry estimates 7,500 new designers will be required over the next 10 years and combined these schools are turning out less than 200 per year so the "severe shortage" (the industry's term not mine) of certified designers will persist. This shortage, a shortage that even persists today, is a good thing if you are looking for a job and what enables me to make double what most college graduate teachers earn.

Let me give two examples. This job in Sacramento (http://jobview.monster.com/Fire-Sprinkler-Designer-NICET-Job-Sacramento-CA-US-85026537.aspx - broken link), CA is begging for applicants.

Quote:
Job Summary

Location Sacramento, CA
Industries Construction - Residential & Commercial/Office Engineering Services
Job Type Full Time Employee

Fire Sprinkler Designer - NICET
About the Job
Growing Company needs a Fire Protection Designer, SprinkCAD experience is a plus.
Desired candidate will have a NICET III with 10 years experience.

Position is located in California, Company is multifaceted and established.
Salary commensurate with experience, plus benefits.

Possible Relocation Required
Competition for this job is extremely limited because there are only 49 NICET III's and 36 NICET IV's living in the entire state. They need a NICET III or IV and that is the pool they have to select from.

or this one in Arkansas

Quote:
Fire Protection Designer*
NICET Certification: NICET Level III Automatic Sprinkler Systems Layout preferred
Location: NW Arkansas

**Fire Protection Designers** Live and Work in the Beautiful Ozarks! Excellent benefits and a great place to work.
Read all about this exciting position and apply online at: Benchmark Group - Prototype Building Design, Retail Architects, Restaurant Architects
Benchmark Group Affirmative Action Employer M/F/V/D
Arkansas has 13 NICET III's and 14 NICET IV's living in the entire state and three of the NICET IV's are officially retired. There are only 24 possible applicants living inside the state and all those are currently employed. If someone with a Level III certification showed up at their office the chance of them getting the job would be better than 75% because they would probably be the only one to show up.

Pay would range from a low of $50k up to $75k depending on experience.

Count the numbers for yourself, here's a pdf copy of the national registry as of October, 2009.

As far as a career it isn't as hot as it was just a year ago or especially three years ago. Three years ago all you would have to do is bang on a door and 75% of the companies would hire you on the spot. Today there are still jobs but there have been lay-offs expecially around Las Vegas, Indiana/Michigan area and south Florida but everyone I know of who has been laid off has found a job in a week or two especially if they were in one of the hard hit areas and able to relocate. I can honestly say it is hard for me to imagine anyone who is certified being unable to find a job in two to three weeks.

But then there is always the inspectors jobs if you are really hard up. Here's a little secret, most states will allow a certified designer to inspect but non of them will allow an certified inspector to design or act as a Qualified Managing Employee which is required to obtain a license. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of inspector jobs going begging right now. Simply not enough qualified inspectors and this market is tight. Pay is somewhat less an inspector can expect between $35,000 and $60,000 depending on where they were located but 90% of the companies offer benefits on par with the union and I suppose a job paying an average of $45k with family health insurance and a 401k plan is better than no job at all.

And that was my career path.
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:07 PM
 
768 posts, read 937,906 times
Reputation: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Engineering day to day is 1/3 as technically difficult as college. Also, the university you attend isn't as important for engineering as it is for something like law or business, professions in which connections are made. Your college probably affects your first job. After that it is almost all the specific skills you have and your attitude (Do you care about doing a good job).

Engineering hours are very flexible, 6-230 if you want, or 9-6 if you want. Major companies actually encourage people to work at home - prohibited if you have classified work to do of course. Most engineering companies pay for advanced degrees. The big companies will relocate you - and you'll actually make money doing it.

Engineering isn't that high stress. Most engineers are regular guys - except a lot of them could be characterized such that they have a high ratio of income to vehicle worth. It isn't unusual to have engineers making $140K driving $3000 cars - in fact it's very common.

For salary, most engineering companies have a low standard deviation for merit increases. That is, an average guy gets a 3% raise, an all star maybe a 5% raise and a slacker gets a 1% to 2% raise. The way to increase your salary is to change companies every five years or so for the first 15 or 20 years. Each time you change companies you can get over a 20% raise (I got two 22% raises in 14 months once).

One final thing I'll add before my edit minutes run out, is the demographics favor people in their 40s. I am 48 and when I attend meetings I am often the youngest guy in the room. A lot of gray haired guys there. In five or ten years they'll be posting on City-Data for their retirement activities and I'll be taking their jobs.

Chapter 3: Science and Engineering Workforce: Age and Retirement

you are the man, Charles. Thanks.


Do you recommend EE over the others?
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