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Old 03-05-2010, 08:56 PM
 
Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
1,719 posts, read 4,638,148 times
Reputation: 739

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Is it illegal to ask your employee to work late, 30 mins to 1 hour, but come in late and leave early the next day?

I say it is, but my boss says it isn't because they are asking me and I can say no not forcing me.

Of course if I say no, I look like a bad worker. I am replacing the old employee who was let go, we worked side by side. I am told that if I don't like it, they were looking for someone to do this anyways. Kinda like a take it or leave it thing.

Also, I knew what the old employee was being paid, but I am doing a MUCH better job than him, and I've had about 25% of the company tell me that, yet I found out I won't be getting near what he got, which is only about a 10% raise/promotion. I am being told that the new person they would have hired, was going to get less than that, and it sounds like less than I am. It's BS, but what can I do? Work less efficiently, but still work hard. Currently I am working through my breaks and usually my lunch. Then once 4:55 comes and I'm ready to go home, I am told I need to work late (the ONLY one in my dept of 6 ppl) because of the importance of my job, or that I need to drive somewhere for a delivery AFTER 5pm, and perform a mis-punch...and just come in late or leave early the next day.

I'm to the point that if they are not paying me what I know I am worth, I feel like I shouldn't be doing them any favors by "cooking the books" with my time schedule.

Am I right in all this? It's basically:

1. Deal with their illegal practices
2. Say no and leave at 5 (my boss told me today that I can do that)
3. Change jobs.

I enjoy working there, but some things are just not cool and Ive done so much for them, for them to take a dump on me about this promotion is crazy.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:03 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California
2,496 posts, read 5,674,432 times
Reputation: 1814
If they provide you with overtime, then no--I don't think it's illegal. Plenty of jobs ask "will you be able to work overtime?" when you apply for them.

If they're compensating you for being there then no, then what could be illegal about it? There's no set maximum of hours that an employer can have an adult employee (< 18, that's different) stay.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:08 PM
 
Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
1,719 posts, read 4,638,148 times
Reputation: 739
I am NOT being paid for working over 8 hours. I can work 12 hours a day, but have to come in late or leave early so that my "clock" time shows 40hours a week. So I'd be getting straight pay regardless. In our department is the ONLY department in the company that has NO overtime, and it is done to make the boss look good, because, "we dont need it...we can get it all done", which obviously isn't the case for my position. I NEED to work more than 8 hours a day sometimes. I don't like the "come in late tomorrow or leave early".

I don't think that is compensation....I am there for MONEY, not to do favors.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:11 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 2,721,006 times
Reputation: 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry For Cheese View Post
Is it illegal to ask your employee to work late, 30 mins to 1 hour, but come in late and leave early the next day?

I say it is, but my boss says it isn't because they are asking me and I can say no not forcing me.

Of course if I say no, I look like a bad worker. I am replacing the old employee who was let go, we worked side by side. I am told that if I don't like it, they were looking for someone to do this anyways. Kinda like a take it or leave it thing.

Also, I knew what the old employee was being paid, but I am doing a MUCH better job than him, and I've had about 25% of the company tell me that, yet I found out I won't be getting near what he got, which is only about a 10% raise/promotion. I am being told that the new person they would have hired, was going to get less than that, and it sounds like less than I am. It's BS, but what can I do? Work less efficiently, but still work hard. Currently I am working through my breaks and usually my lunch. Then once 4:55 comes and I'm ready to go home, I am told I need to work late (the ONLY one in my dept of 6 ppl) because of the importance of my job, or that I need to drive somewhere for a delivery AFTER 5pm, and perform a mis-punch...and just come in late or leave early the next day.

I'm to the point that if they are not paying me what I know I am worth, I feel like I shouldn't be doing them any favors by "cooking the books" with my time schedule.

Am I right in all this? It's basically:

1. Deal with their illegal practices
2. Say no and leave at 5 (my boss told me today that I can do that)
3. Change jobs.

I enjoy working there, but some things are just not cool and Ive done so much for them, for them to take a dump on me about this promotion is crazy.
It is not illegal from an FLSA standpoint. What would be illegal is if they asked you to work off of the clock and did not pay you.

FLSA requires nonexempt employees to be paid overtime based on the minimum guideline. For 7 days work, every minute over 40 hours is to be paid at the overtime rate. It has to be by the week-- you cant work 44 hours this week and 36 hours next week and they pay you no overtime.. you are owed 4 hours of OT for the first week.

An employer may have different rules above and beyond the minimum FLSA-- it may be their policy to pay OT for every minute outside of an assigned schedule-- but that is not a law for minimum FLSA. Also FLSA does not cover ALL employees. Essentially the rule of thumb is
if a job is governed by some other federal labor law, the FLSA does not apply (think railroad workers, airline workers in some cases).

An employer can tell you to go home and not work any more so that they do not have to pay overtime-- as long as you are not working-- you are not entitled to the overtime. Now if you are expected to work and they just make you sign off the clock, then yes that is illegal.

For some of the nonexempt employees in my department-- we do allow them to go home early on Friday if they have accumulated more than 3 hours of overtime that week-- since we have to manage our OT budget. If one of those employees has to stay to finish something based on business need then obviously they will continue to be paid OT. We have folks who come in later if they worked a lot of hours the previous day. There is nothing illegal about this as long as we are paying them for every minute worked. I.e. you are not working you dont get paid.

Also there are some states who calculate overtime based on a day-- CA comes to mind.

Long story short-- your employer is not going against the law as long as they are paying you for every minute worked. Sending you home early or having you come in later is not circumventing OT laws (as long as you are not working).
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:16 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 2,721,006 times
Reputation: 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry For Cheese View Post
I am NOT being paid for working over 8 hours. I can work 12 hours a day, but have to come in late or leave early so that my "clock" time shows 40hours a week. So I'd be getting straight pay regardless. In our department is the ONLY department in the company that has NO overtime, and it is done to make the boss look good, because, "we dont need it...we can get it all done", which obviously isn't the case for my position. I NEED to work more than 8 hours a day sometimes. I don't like the "come in late tomorrow or leave early".

I don't think that is compensation....I am there for MONEY, not to do favors.
Your boss is of course doing the company a good thing. People abuse overtime because of the higher rate. They didn't hire you to work as much overtime as you want-- why should they? They could hire someone at a straight salary versus paying time and half.

Your manager, like me and my management, is managing his workforce to keep overtime at a minimum. If I have a business need and need my team to work it-- then it is available, but a standard work week I am not just going to have people hanging around extending out work that can be managed in 40 hours.

Of course not every day is predicatable and some days may be busier-- so in that event people work longer hours and then they are able to come in late/ leave early the next day. Most people enjoy this--. If people dont think they can do their work in 40 hours, then we sit together and reprioritize the work and delegate the other portions to others who may not have as many tasks.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:16 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California
2,496 posts, read 5,674,432 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry For Cheese View Post
I am NOT being paid for working over 8 hours. I can work 12 hours a day, but have to come in late or leave early so that my "clock" time shows 40hours a week. So I'd be getting straight pay regardless. In our department is the ONLY department in the company that has NO overtime, and it is done to make the boss look good, because, "we dont need it...we can get it all done", which obviously isn't the case for my position. I NEED to work more than 8 hours a day sometimes. I don't like the "come in late tomorrow or leave early".

I don't think that is compensation....I am there for MONEY, not to do favors.
If you're employer is doing things to prevent to you getting hours over 40/week but is still paying you for every minute you're "on the clock" then no, there's nothing illegal about this. Crappy that your work hours are getting manipulated but still--not illegal.

Some companies will pay OT per day, for example I worked somewhere that paid employees time and a half for all work over 8 hours per day. HOWEVER, this isn't legally required. The requirement is that employers pay OT for all hours worked over 40/week for non-exempt employees.

I think (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that legally the only limit on hours work is that there are 8 hours between shifts. As in, if you work a job until midnight the earliest an employer can have you come in the next day is 8am.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
1,719 posts, read 4,638,148 times
Reputation: 739
So basically if I work 9 hours Mon, 8 Tues, 9 Wed, 7.5 Thurs, and 6.5hrs Friday it is totally legal since it adds up to forty hours? I mean technically I am getting paid for what I work, but I was always under the impression that anything over 8 hours in ONE day automatically means overtime. I have people in Accounting who are telling me this is illegal though.

Now on the other hand, if I leave early or come late, I can work more hours another day to equal it out to 40 hours a week. Catch 22.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:19 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 2,721,006 times
Reputation: 1567
FYI-- since it looks like you are in CA-- here is the standard CA overtime rules

In California, the general overtime provisions are that a nonexempt employee 18 years of age or older, or any minor employee 16 or 17 years of age who is not required by law to attend school and is not otherwise prohibited by law from engaging in the subject work, shall not be employed more than eight hours in any workday or more than 40 hours in any workweek unless he or she receives one and one-half times his or her regular rate of pay for all hours worked over eight hours in any workday and over 40 hours in the workweek. Eight hours of labor constitutes a day's work, and employment beyond eight hours in any workday or more than six days in any workweek is permissible provided the employee is compensated for the overtime at not less than:
  1. One and one-half times the employee's regular rate of pay for all hours worked in excess of eight hours up to and including 12 hours in any workday, and for the first eight hours worked on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek; and
  2. Double the employee's regular rate of pay for all hours worked in excess of 12 hours in any workday and for all hours worked in excess of eight on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek.
Overtime
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:24 PM
 
Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
1,719 posts, read 4,638,148 times
Reputation: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheduns View Post
FYI-- since it looks like you are in CA-- here is the standard CA overtime rules

In California, the general overtime provisions are that a nonexempt employee 18 years of age or older, or any minor employee 16 or 17 years of age who is not required by law to attend school and is not otherwise prohibited by law from engaging in the subject work, shall not be employed more than eight hours in any workday or more than 40 hours in any workweek unless he or she receives one and one-half times his or her regular rate of pay for all hours worked over eight hours in any workday and over 40 hours in the workweek. Eight hours of labor constitutes a day's work, and employment beyond eight hours in any workday or more than six days in any workweek is permissible provided the employee is compensated for the overtime at not less than:
  1. One and one-half times the employee's regular rate of pay for all hours worked in excess of eight hours up to and including 12 hours in any workday, and for the first eight hours worked on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek; and
  2. Double the employee's regular rate of pay for all hours worked in excess of 12 hours in any workday and for all hours worked in excess of eight on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek.
Overtime
See now to me, it sounds like I am being worked over...and that it is illegal. I work 9hours, but get paid for 8.......and the other days I get paid for 8...which equals 80 on our bi-weekly check. Instead it should be 80 hours, plus 1 hour OT. Or even if I worked 72 hours because I was out sick one day, I should get 1 hour OT. They shouldn't apply the extra hour to make it 73 hours....it should be 73.5.


Am I wrong???
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:24 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 2,721,006 times
Reputation: 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry For Cheese View Post
So basically if I work 9 hours Mon, 8 Tues, 9 Wed, 7.5 Thurs, and 6.5hrs Friday it is totally legal since it adds up to forty hours? I mean technically I am getting paid for what I work, but I was always under the impression that anything over 8 hours in ONE day automatically means overtime. I have people in Accounting who are telling me this is illegal though.

Now on the other hand, if I leave early or come late, I can work more hours another day to equal it out to 40 hours a week. Catch 22.
Unless CA has specific rules for other classed employees (Like how FLSA does not cover railroad employees) and if you were to fall into that special class-- then I would say here is what you would be paid based on the CA directives.

Monday 9 hours = 8 hours reg pay/ 1 hr Time and Half
Tuesday 8 hours = 8 hours reg pay
Wed 9 hours = 8 hours reg pay/ 1 hr time and half
Thurs 7.5 hours = 7.5 hours reg pay
Friday 6.5 hours = 6.5 hours reg pay
TOTAL = 38 reg pay hours 2 hours OT

I am not an expert on CA wage laws and I don't have any nonexempts in the state of CA-- so I dont do payroll for nonexempts, but that is how I read their law.
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