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I don't see any major mobbing going in the room I work in, but I feel like sometimes that there is so much subtle mobbing -- whether it's the slight change in tone or inflection of someone's voice or the subtle comments that seem like playful mocking on the outside -- that it's just crazy. Sometimes, I just tell myself that it's just me overreacting to something that probably doesn't even exist. Then there are those days where I am really convinced that these people are constantly trying to test limits with each other to see how far they can go. I've just never understood this kind of behavior. When I go to work, I go there to do my job and get paid. I feel like I am not getting paid to work in my field, but get paid to sit in a room with a bunch of other people and deal with their politics, bureaucracy, and very subtle bullying all day (the kind that you really can't call them out on or it will make you look like the bad guy). I wonder sometimes if I'm doing the same thing to other people and I don't even realize it. Anyway, I don't know if this is on par with your intended topic artsyguy, but figured I would mention it anyway.
Thank you for your individual insight Caldus. Everyone has different perspectives on this matter. Like you said it seems that "mobbing" or childish behaviors is about testing people to see how far they can go before the person snaps. Then when they do nobody takes responsibility for it. Or if you say something you are the "bad guy" that needs therapy because you are "too sensitive or paranoid".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caldus
I don't see any major mobbing going in the room I work in, but I feel like sometimes that there is so much subtle mobbing -- whether it's the slight change in tone or inflection of someone's voice or the subtle comments that seem like playful mocking on the outside -- that it's just crazy. Sometimes, I just tell myself that it's just me overreacting to something that probably doesn't even exist. Then there are those days where I am really convinced that these people are constantly trying to test limits with each other to see how far they can go. I've just never understood this kind of behavior. When I go to work, I go there to do my job and get paid. I feel like I am not getting paid to work in my field, but get paid to sit in a room with a bunch of other people and deal with their politics, bureaucracy, and very subtle bullying all day (the kind that you really can't call them out on or it will make you look like the bad guy). I wonder sometimes if I'm doing the same thing to other people and I don't even realize it. Anyway, I don't know if this is on par with your intended topic artsyguy, but figured I would mention it anyway.
I was telling this to someone in another post (even though I have a hard time with it myself) and saw someone else post it to someone else -- basically people just need to learn how to develop thicker skin when they are at work. I know it would be very beneficial for me, but because of the kind of person I am it's been difficult forming that skin. This will work for dealing with the subtle stuff I guess, but when it comes to the more obvious, severe mobbing, I don't know have any additional thoughts on that one. I've never had to deal with something that crazy at work before.
You can't develop thicker skin. Don't you think you would have already developed thicker skin by now? If it were for your own good? That's a stupid comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caldus
I was telling this to someone in another post (even though I have a hard time with it myself) and saw someone else post it to someone else -- basically people just need to learn how to develop thicker skin when they are at work. I know it would be very beneficial for me, but because of the kind of person I am it's been difficult forming that skin. This will work for dealing with the subtle stuff I guess, but when it comes to the more obvious, severe mobbing, I don't know have any additional thoughts on that one. I've never had to deal with something that crazy at work before.
I'm sorry for your misunderstanding friend. But you seem to undermine the truth that ethnic, racial, and gay minorities are discriminated against in the workplace more often than you think. People have their biases. Trust is built for some people based on a caring relationship. While trust can never be built with certain individuals. And that is a fact of life. It serves a powerful purpose for individuals to discuss this on a forum. Everyone learns and grows. And no question is ever wrong IMHO. I'm sorry that you have the inability to empathize or think outside of the box. That is your concern not mine. Take care.
Think whatever you want. I think most of the time people invent racism/discrimination in their minds. I was in the airport once and my flight was cancelled. I got in line and had waited for 45 minutes to get to the front. When I got to the front, a lady (who happened to be black) tried to cut in front of me. I told her there was a line and everyone had waited for a long time. She immediately called me a racist and ranted about how racist I was for a good five minutes. I didn't care what she was, it was rude to cut in a line when everyone else had been waiting for so long.
I think that mindset is a huge problem. There is a problem with personal behavior and when it is pointed out the person blames racism/sexism/whatever.
I am not saying those things don't exist, but I do think people look for excuses to not take responsibility for their own actions.
I'm sorry for your misunderstanding friend. But you seem to undermine the truth that ethnic, racial, and gay minorities are discriminated against in the workplace more often than you think. People have their biases. Trust is built for some people based on a caring relationship. While trust can never be built with certain individuals. And that is a fact of life. It serves a powerful purpose for individuals to discuss this on a forum. Everyone learns and grows. And no question is ever wrong IMHO. I'm sorry that you have the inability to empathize or think outside of the box. That is your concern not mine. Take care.
Artsyguy-- really ANY person can be discriminated against. This is not just held to those of an ethnic, racial, or gay orientation.
Women are discriminated against as are men. Blacks as are white and latinos and asians. Americans as are Indians. Christians as are Muslims. Skinny people as are fat people.
I am carrying some extra weight and I am sure someone can make an instant decision and think-- wow I bet she is lazy. I have a girl in my work area who is SUPER SUPER SUPER skinny (i.e. skeletal) and my first thoughts were-- I wonder if she has an ED or is anorexic.
Same applies for those who are older and even younger.
You can't engineer out the fact that people see differences and will always see differences-- even if it is not overt. You work in a place where you feel you are being heavily "mobbed" because you are gay, black, gay, transgendered, woman, fat, etc-- MOVE ON. No amount of legislation, moral highground, or anything will ever change those judgements. Some folks have the couth to not let differences color them in their decision making, hiring, firing, promotions, management--- but there will always be those who are ignorant and will continue to be so regardless of PCness, legislation, etc.
So if she isn't capable to be successful in her current role. If her inability to be successful interferes with her group's success. Then why wouldn't they be upset with her. Then it makes sense that her co-workers would try to get rid of her. That is common sense. If that is the collective belief. Then there is a basis in reality for mobbing.
If the group were her good friends. They supported her during mistakes. Helped correct her mistakes. Helped her finish her work. And made visible efforts to keep her there then she would not have a basis to feel mobbed out. They would be cooperative, understanding, non-judgmental, and open to disclosing information which would make any person normal or frazzled feel very welcomed.
Actually if these folks were her true friends (outside of work) they would probably be frank with Sally and let her know that perhaps the role is just not a fit for her. I have had this done to me by friends and I have said the same to friends.
The fact that her coworkers are not her friends and are professional means that they treat her professionally, but still make it clear to their management that they have a level of frustration that they have to keep doing rework, setting up additional trainings, and hand hold her through every step. As they have the legitimate right to do so.
In the real world, not everyone brings the same skillsets to the table. Not everyone is an analyst, not everyone is a leader, not everyone can do customer service. Sometimes in re-orgs people fall into jobs or people may apply for a job because they are curious to see if they can do it. And sometimes, when these things happen-- the job is just not a fit.
It is ridiculous and counter productive to make people try to overcome all weaknesses they have-- whereas it makes more sense to build upon their strengths and encourage them to excel in jobs that cater to their skillset and strengths.
I am not a great sales person-- I suck at it. I have tried it-- realized that it was just NOT the role for me. I struggled just to make quota whereas those who were gifted with the skills and personality for sales excelled. It would be the very definition of insanity for me to keep trying and plugging away when it just was not a fit. I knew that management at some point if I continued to struggle would have to make the decision to get rid of me-- usually in sales, sales people wear their big boy and girl pants to know that-- hmm if I don't make the numbers at some point I am going to be let go (since it is such a numbers driven, production driven environment). I made a move before that happened and went back to doing what I excelled at-- I tried it, learned a lot from it, didn't work for me.
The fact that Sally is not in an appropriate role does not mean that her coworkers are treating her differently or even her management. Responsible management can help her identify that the role is just not right for her-- if she is open to really examining her situation-- if she is not it does not matter what is done for her and she will continue to press blame on everyone but the situation and ultimately her inability to realize that she needs to move on to something different.
The smart and excellent employee knows when something is beyond them-- they are the ones who manage their manager and utilize their manager to help them move on to something better and more fitting.
I just inherited a Sally-- she has many good qualities. I think she would exceed in a team lead position in a job that is more process based (i.e. something with very defined processes and and not a lot of ambiguity). She is not an analyst and will never be an analyst. However, she is very good at ensuring a certain process is followed. She is just not able to think out of the box-- and I think it is pretty clear from the work she prefers on the team that she likes the tasks that are very black and white. She has really good people skills and likes to network with others.
There is no point to have her continue to suffer under a job that she really doesn't like (if she were to really think about it unemotionally). What is really unfair is to have the rest of her team continuously have to pick up extra work that she is not able to do. At some point if I choose to be blind to the reality of the situation, the team will get bitter-- and they are not unprofessional so they are not going to mob her, but they will start all leaving for other opportunities. My job now is to help find my Sally another opportunity at the firm that will complement the skills and traits she has versus forcing her to try and be something that she is not.
Okay. Very nice points. I hope people look at alternatives that are constructive to the workplace and to individuals. Most of all I hope people learn from our discussions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheduns
Artsyguy-- really ANY person can be discriminated against. This is not just held to those of an ethnic, racial, or gay orientation.
Women are discriminated against as are men. Blacks as are white and latinos and asians. Americans as are Indians. Christians as are Muslims. Skinny people as are fat people.
I am carrying some extra weight and I am sure someone can make an instant decision and think-- wow I bet she is lazy. I have a girl in my work area who is SUPER SUPER SUPER skinny (i.e. skeletal) and my first thoughts were-- I wonder if she has an ED or is anorexic.
Same applies for those who are older and even younger.
You can't engineer out the fact that people see differences and will always see differences-- even if it is not overt. You work in a place where you feel you are being heavily "mobbed" because you are gay, black, gay, transgendered, woman, fat, etc-- MOVE ON. No amount of legislation, moral highground, or anything will ever change those judgements. Some folks have the couth to not let differences color them in their decision making, hiring, firing, promotions, management--- but there will always be those who are ignorant and will continue to be so regardless of PCness, legislation, etc.
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Um, Discrimination, Harassment, Abusive or Inappropriate behavior, these things I understand. But pardon me for asking.... what the heck is "mobbing"?
Maybe it's a "generational" thing, because I've worked in a LOT of places, large and small, public and private, and have never come across this anywhere! And presumably we're talking about a genuine harassment phenomenon here, and not just about typical office politics prompting someone's hurt "feelings", "sensitivities", or projected paranoia. It's why companies all have managers and HR Departments these days!
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