Would you consider Jewish people 'western'? (public school, estate, clothing)
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ABQConvict[/left];16177049]I disagree. The Middle East is the orient of antiquity, the very model upon which the 'West' was conceptualized in contrast to the Middle East's 'East'.
However, Oriental religion (Christianity) is foundational to the definition of the West.
If you are trying to describe a "model" of a civilization that western culture is based on (and there isn't just one) I would say Roman not middle eastern. Of coarse we do use Arabic numerals. Can you imagine doing math in Roman numerals ?
Sephardic Jews can be western and many have lived in western nations as long as Ashkenazi jews. Sephardic Jews have their origins in Spain but were driven out centuries ago. Many moved to the Netherlands, some to the US, England and other western nations. The first Jews that lived in the US were Sephardic Jews. Of course many also moved to North Africa as well as south Eastern Europe and turkey today.
I get the impression that when it comes to Sephardic Jews there's a difference between those who went to other Western European countries after being expelled from Spain and Sicily in 1492, and those who went to North Africa, Turkey, or the Middle East.
Back when there were more Jews in North Africa there was a distinction between Sephardics (who tended to be more affluent and who became closer to their French rulers) and Berber Jews (descendants of converts to Judaism prior to the spread of Islam into the region). The "Mizrahi" category, which technically means "Arab Jews", includes Berber Jews, Yemenites, Persian Jews, and Indian Jews as well, and perhaps Jews from sub-Saharan Africa, all of whom I wouldn't consider to be "westernized" (although descendants of immigrants from those areas may be westernized today). I wouldn't consider Chinese Jews to be "westernized" either given that they are from a non-western society.
If you are trying to describe a "model" of a civilization that western culture is based on (and there isn't just one) I would say Roman not middle eastern. Of coarse we do use Arabic numerals. Can you imagine doing math in Roman numerals ?
What I meant with my convoluted wording is that Western civilization regarded itself in apposition (if not direct opposition) to Oriental civilization. The Roman civilization is the first iteration of this appositional model.
In France, the majority of jew are Sephardi and Mizrahi.
The bulk of then have been there when France lost its empire in Algeria as the Jews there lost their citizenship in that country when Algeria became independent. Anyway the previous prime minster of Isreal Sharon stated that the Jews of France should move to Isreal as France is not safe for them anymore, but that is an lie and French Jews generally find France safe even though there were some small anti semetic incidents there and the French Jews of Algerian backgrounds are generally integrated into French culture, even when they were under Colonial rule in Algeria.
'Israel' is. in essence, a nazi survival, foul, aggressive and racist. 'The Jews', insofar as they can be identified now are THE Western People, par excellence, the essential culture-bearers. Why are we supposed to confuse the two?
Funny, the first answer that came to me was "of course, look at Don Imus".
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