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Old 06-18-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
4,879 posts, read 3,325,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sim123 View Post
Every country in the world has been "suffering". The notion that countries like India, China and Brazil are not suffering is just so false. Hundreds of millions of people are living in slums with hardly no income. It's a far cry from the U.S.

The fact that anyone can assume the the U.S and other western countries are "suffering" just goes to show that some people have a very limited view of the world.
People compare their status and fortunes (or misfortunes) with their neighbors, their fellow countrymen, not with people living on the other side of the world...
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,698,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
People compare their status and fortunes (or misfortunes) with their neighbors, their fellow countrymen, not with people living on the other side of the world...

I think morale is also relative to recent eras and the prospects for the future. I know that in China, at least, optimism is spreading, and with pretty good reason. In the West, malaise is spreading, and with equally good reason.

An economic flattening of the world both within and across countries would be desirable from a human rights perspective, but don't expect westerners to be happy when they have to share the pie with the rest of the world. We have had hegemony for so long, that true equality scares the hell out of us, despite our braying about democracy and equality.
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
4,879 posts, read 3,325,413 times
Reputation: 2932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
I think morale is also relative to recent eras and the prospects for the future. I know that in China, at least, optimism is spreading, and with pretty good reason. In the West, malaise is spreading, and with equally good reason.

An economic flattening of the world both within and across countries would be desirable from a human rights perspective, but don't expect westerners to be happy when they have to share the pie with the rest of the world. We have had hegemony for so long, that true equality scares the hell out of us, despite our braying about democracy and equality.
Agree 100%. In the West and even Japan, they see their economic prospects on the decline..
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,698,820 times
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An interesting historical precedent. When in the history of humanity has a small, elite class willingly allowed others to rise at their expense? I believe that the corporate elite in the US, at least, have learned that they can only keep their party going by preying on the very companies and country they claim to lead. Witness the housing bubble and energy bubbles, corporate raiders, and escalating CEO salaries. They cannot really grow a broad-based economy that includes a middle class. Ok, they are greedy pigs. No leadership there. But honestly, who will be able to sell the morally appropriate model of investing in other countries, even as we decline in relative position? I think we are moving into historically unprecedented terrain in the West, and it is hard to visualize what appropriate leadership should/will look like.
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:41 PM
 
51 posts, read 101,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
I think morale is also relative to recent eras and the prospects for the future. I know that in China, at least, optimism is spreading, and with pretty good reason. In the West, malaise is spreading, and with equally good reason. .
Sorry to burst your bubble man...I don't think that is correct at all. The majority of people in China (read: more than a billion people) live in poverty beyond imagination.

Dateline (Australian news show) had a great piece of this matter that really made me realize that Chinese growth is built on totally unsustainable construction and the underlying growth is very weak.

You can watch the program here: China’s ghost cities and the biggest property bubble of all time | Grist

It's actually a very sad story, but illustrates a huge problem in that country, which could have devastating potential for the global economy.
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Old 06-18-2011, 06:40 PM
 
5,490 posts, read 13,863,900 times
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The countries that seem to be doing the best economically(compared to how they were before):

1. China
2. Denmark
3. South Korea
4. Germany
5. Netherlands
6. Taiwan
7. Singapore
8. India
9. Switzerland
10. Thailand
11. Norway


The countries that seem to be doing the worst economically compared to before and are suffering with that

1. Spain
2. Greece
3. Portugal
4. Italy
5. Iceland
6. Nigeria
7. Egypt
8. Libya
9. Venezuela
10. Burma (However, it was already bad for numbers 6 to 10. I am saying they got even worse).


Countries that are suffering a little bit economically but it is not that bad compared to most other countries. Also, these countries already have such great economies that they can easily bounce back and seem like they are already bouncing back:

1. USA
2. England/United Kingdom
3. France
4. Japan
5. Sweden
6. Canada
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,698,820 times
Reputation: 5689
Quote:
Originally Posted by ******* View Post
The countries that seem to be doing the best economically(compared to how they were before):

1. China
2. Denmark
3. South Korea
4. Germany
5. Netherlands
6. Taiwan
7. Singapore
8. India
9. Switzerland
10. Thailand
11. Norway


The countries that seem to be doing the worst economically compared to before and are suffering with that

1. Spain
2. Greece
3. Portugal
4. Italy
5. Iceland
6. Nigeria
7. Egypt
8. Libya
9. Venezuela
10. Burma (However, it was already bad for numbers 6 to 10. I am saying they got even worse).


Countries that are suffering a little bit economically but it is not that bad compared to most other countries. Also, these countries already have such great economies that they can easily bounce back and seem like they are already bouncing back:

1. USA
2. England/United Kingdom
3. France
4. Japan
5. Sweden
6. Canada
Nice breakdown. I will disagree with the notion that the US, Japan, and UK will bounce back quickly. Not sure about France either. Sweden? Probably. But in the first three a number of chickens are coming home to roost, foremost demographics (a bunch of duffers who undertaxed themselves, but will continue to vote in benefits for themselves at the expense of the younger folks). I see a continued decline in relative standards of living across the board for the next 20-30 years.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:52 AM
 
51 posts, read 101,388 times
Reputation: 37
The countries that seem to be doing the best economically(compared to how they were before):
Compared to what? Before? What does that mean?

1. China
Well, if you believe in unsustainable growth, built solely on construction, while hundreds of millions in poverty...then sure: China’s ghost cities and the biggest property bubble of all time | Grist

2. Denmark
Denmark is in a recession as of May 2011, so nope, Denmark is not doing better: Denmark Enters Recession on Less Spending - Bloomberg

3. South Korea
Probably one of the better economies in Asia, provided their trading partners will keep running.

4. Germany
Germany has serious demographic challenge. Their population has been shrinking for decades. Older populations are a problem for most european countries, much more than the U.S. Germany also has large exposure to the Greece problem.

5. Netherlands
Typical low-growth northern european country.

6. Taiwan
Has been doing pretty good for a number of years. If they can turn that into wealth for the people, they might be worth looking at.

7. Singapore
Has been doing good, but growth is slowing.

8. India
Steady growth, but hundreds of millions live in severe poverty.

9. Switzerland
Low growth, but pretty healthy.

10. Thailand
Where do you get this stuff from?

11. Norway
Has had oil for decades, but supply in dwindling fast. Production is too expensive, so significant export is out of the question.

The countries that seem to be doing the worst economically compared to before and are suffering with that

1. Spain
Agree

2. Greece
Lousy economy

3. Portugal
Stinky economy

4. Italy
Significant trouble here

5. Iceland
Bankrupt, but will probably bounce back

6. Nigeria
...

7. Egypt
Did they ever have an economy?

8. Libya
Insane leader can ruin any economy

9. Venezuela
Well...

10. Burma (However, it was already bad for numbers 6 to 10. I am saying they got even worse).
who knows...?


Countries that are suffering a little bit economically but it is not that bad compared to most other countries. Also, these countries already have such great economies that they can easily bounce back and seem like they are already bouncing back:

1. USA
Sure, having to postpone buying the next iPhone a couple of weeks really constitutes suffering...not really...

2. England/United Kingdom
Has had some problems, but has leveled out. Still low growth...

3. France
One of the healtier economies of Europe. Huge exposure to the Greece problems though.

4. Japan
Low growth, earthquake problems has created suffering, but they'll get growth back slowly.

5. Sweden
Sweden has been doing pretty good, due to good exports. Doing much better than it's Scandinavian neighbor Denmark.

6. Canada
Has had problems, but has come back fairly well with the US as closest trading partner.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:58 AM
 
6,457 posts, read 8,118,305 times
Reputation: 5491
Well, the unemployment rate in the U.S. was 9.1 in May 2011. Not exactly good news. The housing bubble is still an issue. The national debt situation is out of control.
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:56 AM
 
51 posts, read 101,388 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmptrwlt View Post
Well, the unemployment rate in the U.S. was 9.1 in May 2011. Not exactly good news. The housing bubble is still an issue. The national debt situation is out of control.
Well, compared to the European countries, U.S. unemployment and national debt level looks like a regular paradise.

In Denmark (my home country), the national debt is about $120.000 per person. The U.S. national debt is about $45.000 per person. But Denmark is seen as a relatively stable economy. The U.S. national debt is no worse than other countries, but it has been politicized to the max.

Also, the unemployment rate in the EU is 10%. How is that any better than the U.S.!?
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