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View Poll Results: Is the Caucasus European or Middle Eastern?
European 45 48.39%
Middle Eastern 48 51.61%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-05-2011, 02:07 PM
 
Location: LA, US / Malmo, SWE
312 posts, read 904,190 times
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In their own opinion, at least from the Armenians perspective, they're European.
I fully agree, they're very much like Greeks for example.
Georgians I don't know, however Azerbaijan is middle-eastern because of their religion and general state of mind.

*******: Don't agree with you that Bosnia and especially Albania is anything close to be called European. Albania is a piece of **** country filled with scum, excuse my french.
Don't know if I would call them Middle Eastern either, more like gypsies.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Northeast of Brazil
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Albanians are European, regardless of anyone's opinion about them. Totally European. They can't be anything else than European.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Ontario
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I'd say geographically they are Asian, especially Azerbaijan, but culturally European
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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I think the answer would be a little bit of both and neither. Both because the Caucasus area lies on the crossroads, and thus received influences, between the European continent and the Middle East (Asia in ancient/classical times) such as between the Roman and Persian empires, near the line separating major Christian (eastern Orthodox) and Islamic areas but also neither since the area is also home to very old languages and cultures that are distinct from what we tend to think of as typically either Middle Eastern or Europe (for instance, it has many linguistic isolates, such as Georgian and other Caucasian languages, not related to the Indo-European languages, which includes most European languages such the Romance, Germanic, Slavic languages etc. or the Afro-Asiatic language group with includes languages such as Hebrew and Arabic).

I also find it ironic that the term "Caucasian" is used in many parts of the English-speaking world (in the US, Canada and the UK at least) to refer to white people or those of European descent when some people apparent do not consider the area, the Caucasus, where the term comes from, to be in Europe itself! (Though I think in continental Europe though, people still use "Caucasian" to specifically refer to only people from the Caucasus area such as Azeris, Georgians and Armenians, which apparently does cause some confusion when an American talks to a European using the term.)
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ******* View Post
Also, all three of these countries(even Azerbaijan) seem kind of alienated from countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, and even Iran and still seem more closely connected to areas of Europe.
There are apparently more Azerbaijani people people living in Iran in terms of population numbers than in the country of Azebaijan itself, or at least I've heard.
Also, the language is in the Turkic family (Apparently it's said that there can be understanding in spoken communication between speakers of it and speakers of Turkish as well as Turkmen, the national language of Turkmenistan).

But I agree with your point highlighted in your post earlier about the distinction between the Muslim religion and Middle Eastern culture. After all, there are plenty of Muslim countries outside of the Middle East (such as Bosnia and Albania, as you mention in Europe, as well as the Muslim countries in Africa such as Senegal and in Asia such as Indonesia, all of which are very culturally different from the Middle East).
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:59 PM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,234,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ******* View Post
Just because Azerbaijan is muslim majority does not automatically make it more Middle Eastern.

For one example, Albania and Bosnia are 100% officially in Europe geographically and have Muslim majorities.
Does this mean Albania and Bosnia are more Middle Eastern than European? I don't think so. They are still influenced in plenty of other ways to make them more European than Middle Eastern.
Who cares about Albania and Bosnia, when Azerbaijan used to be part of Iran?
How more "Middle Eastern" do you want it to be, when the population there historically consists of Persians and Turks for the most part)))
Here, from Wiki -

History of Azerbaijan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The most powerful among the northern khans was Fat'h Ali Khan of Quba (died 1783), who managed to unite most of the neighboring khanates under his rule and even mounted an expedition to take Tabriz, fighting with Zand dynasty. Another powerful khanate was that of Karabakh, which subdued neighboring Nakhchivan khanate and parts of Erivan khanate.The area to the North of the river Arax, amongst which the territory of the contemporary republic of Azerbaijan were Iranian territory until they were occupied by Russia."

Yes, Russian presence helped a lot to bring secularism in the society, but it still remained modified Islamic culture even through Soviet times. You can identify... I dunno... Lebanon as a "county with European culture" with the same success.
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:50 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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Armenians speak an Indo-European language. All of them are West of the Urals and North of Turkey. So to me it's clear they're European.

Ethnologue report for language code: hye

However seeing as Azebaijanis are Muslims who speak a Turkic language they might count as either Middle Eastern or European depending on how you see Turks. This is different than Albanians or Bosnians who are Muslim, but speak Indo-European languages. Georgians speak Kartvelian languages which seem to pretty much just exist around Georgia. So seeing as that doesn't tell us either way I'd place them as Europeans as I don't see any reason to do otherwise. (They're west of the Urals, they're traditionally Christian, etc)

So taken together I guess I'm saying

Armenians - Definitely European.
Georgians - Probably European, makes more sense than not.
Azerbaijan - Could go either way, depends a bit on what you feel about Turks.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,919 posts, read 24,169,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbler. View Post

I also find it ironic that the term "Caucasian" is used in many parts of the English-speaking world (in the US, Canada and the UK at least) to refer to white people or those of European descent when some people apparent do not consider the area, the Caucasus, where the term comes from, to be in Europe itself!
I think this is because many linguistic theories place the origins of the Indo-European speaking tribes in the area of the Caucasus and Black Sea Plain. Thus, when anthropologists adopted the term Caucasian, they applied it to Europeans and Iranic peoples.

This discussion illustrates the distinction/union of European and Iranic peoples.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:10 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,445,585 times
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On that basis is Finland European? Okay probably as they weren't Soviet, but I believe they were part of the Russian Empire for a long time and their language is Uralic. Or Estonia? Also Uralic and was in the USSR.
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,984 posts, read 13,348,991 times
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Simply speaking an Indo-European language doesn't make a culture European. Iranians speak an Indo-European language, but they are always considered Middle Eastern. Many Pakistanis and Indians (from India) do as well, and they are certainly not European.
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