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Yeah, they could become even more greedy and immoral as there would be no perceived punishment in the afterlife. I don't think atheism is necessarily the answer. As Tiger Beer implied earlier, the battle already exists within Christianity. It just seems that the wrong side is winning right now.
Without wanting to start a debate about this... I am not religious and do not believe in an afterlife of any sort. That does not make me greedy or immoral and I still think helping other people is a good thing. That has nothing to do with one being religious or not. If someone helps me only because he thinks he will be punished in the afterlife if he doesn't, then he is a lot more selfish and greedy than any atheist with my attitude because he does it for his own benefit, and not just to help me. I could go on but I think that would lead too far here.
Without wanting to start a debate about this... I am not religious and do not believe in an afterlife of any sort. That does not make me greedy or immoral and I still think helping other people is a good thing. That has nothing to do with one being religious or not. If someone helps me only because he thinks he will be punished in the afterlife if he doesn't, then he is a lot more selfish and greedy than any atheist with my attitude because he does it for his own benefit, and not just to help me. I could go on but I think that would lead too far here.
All forms of altruism involve selfish motivations, be they religious or not.
There's no comparison between the Arab Spring and the economic/lifestyle issues facing the United States.
As to the protests/riots in Europe, how effective have they been?
The effectiveness of the protests/riots in Europe? If it were counterproductive, that's not the point, which apathetic, lazy Americans fail to see. They just don't get it!!!
True or False, but I read an article in the Economist, some time ago, regarding the perenniel protests in France. I was led to believe these protests, disruptive as they are, are a sanctioned way of allowing the people to vent their frustrations/anger, take a nice vacation from depression and anti-depressants, give them a glimmer of hope!
Why aren't U.S. leaders encouraging us to do likewise?
I was caught up in nationwide road blockades in Argentina, a few years back, and any number of people apologized to me for the disruptions in my travel schedule. Apologize? I enjoyed every single minute of it, knowing this would never happen in my country! This could only happen in a country that embraces democracy!
The effectiveness of the protests/riots in Europe? If it were counterproductive, that's not the point, which apathetic, lazy Americans fail to see. They just don't get it!!!
True or False, but I read an article in the Economist, some time ago, regarding the perenniel protests in France. I was led to believe these protests, disruptive as they are, are a sanctioned way of allowing the people to vent their frustrations/anger, take a nice vacation from depression and anti-depressants, give them a glimmer of hope!
Why aren't U.S. leaders encouraging us to do likewise?
I was caught up in nationwide road blockades in Argentina, a few years back, and any number of people apologized to me for the disruptions in my travel schedule. Apologize? I enjoyed every single minute of it, knowing this would never happen in my country! This could only happen in a country that embraces democracy!
Your points are exactly what I meant....again, very well said
Granted, I grew up Irish Catholic in the U.S. So, I think different than this...
But, I usually associate those values with the 'protestant work ethic' and tied into the Protestant Church. This concept that God rewards them through wealth. It seems very counterintuitive to the religion I learned through Catholicism.
But, when I reluctantly watch such protestant-based american tv shows like 'the 700 Club', they often tie wealth, republicanism, and God into one big ball, and even try to teach how to play at the Stock Market and follow all that stuff.
It runs very contrary to the type of religious teaching I've read everywhere else in the world, and even within my own Catholic upbringing. But for whatever reason, the American version of Protestantism is very tied in with wealth, increasing wealth, etc. God rewards you through wealth, etc.
Usually among the more conservative-voting republican religious right of the U.S., you'll often hear them quickly deny that the earth is going to be destroyed by mankind. I think they tend to believe that God created this earth for man, and that man can do whatever it wants, and the earth will continue to repair itself. So they'll often scoff at those 'wacko environmentalists' and those people who aren't pro-development and pro-wealth-creation.
I know, I know, contrary and counterintuitive to everything in every religion everywhere in the world...but I hear that type of thinking often among religious right, protestant, tele-evangelists, etc. within the United States.
I usually like your posts, but I can't say that I see any merit to materialism being linked with any particular religious belief. I know plenty of Protestants who are simple county-minded folks and people with Catholic backgrounds who are very materialistic (e.g. the Italian guido type).
Also, not all conservatives are created equal. The money-minded type conservative is not usually the same person as the Bible-thumper type
I confess that I have not studied theology and so even though I have always heard of the "Protestant work ethic" I do not know how work relates to Protestantism. I have seen tons of people of other faiths working until they drop and plenty of lazy Protestants, too.
I kind of think that "United States -dynamic working country" and "United States - majority Protestant faith" may have been put into the mixer together accidentally.
A number of other 'Protestant' countries (United Kingdom, Sweden....) are not famous for working themselves silly.
I usually like your posts, but I can't say that I see any merit to materialism being linked with any particular religious belief. I know plenty of Protestants who are simple county-minded folks and people with Catholic backgrounds who are very materialistic (e.g. the Italian guido type).
Also, not all conservatives are created equal. The money-minded type conservative is not usually the same person as the Bible-thumper type
I do think of Italians as materialistic, I don't necessary think of them as hard-working though. I don't think Italians associate wealth with God though.
That being said, I do 100% agree that there are plenty of protestants who do believe the words of the Bible about it being easier for a camel to go through the head of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven, etc. So, it definitely exists in the bible, and people who really believe the bible and follow most versuses, would definitely read and see that.
Yet, somehow, in U.S. politics, I do see the religious right and converative republican politics all being intertwined, and the greed part of the Right Wing Party seems to be either dismissed or embraced accordingly by the Religious Right, but I've never seen it challenged by them.
Personally, I'd love to see a religious left-wing party that denounces rampant materialism and consumptionism. One that believes in showing compassion to their fellow man. Yet, at the same time, can have their social conservatism if they so desire. Just something to show there is another side politically to the religious right.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 09-22-2011 at 09:27 PM..
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