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You've got a good point, it could get ugly, but I already have felt the ugliness from 2 french realestate agents who look at me while blaming the US for a downturn in the housing market and mortgage lenders tightening their belts. The world is a very different market place than it was in the '30s so could things really get as bad? If they did, I dont think the EU would hold, but America, well we have historically pulled up our socks and got serious after a good kick in the pants.
Ask them about Societe General and how the management and Jean Clown Trichet roiled the markets last January. There was actually a guy who committed suicide near where I live on the following Tuesday before they sort of came clean and disclosed what had happened.
As far as a move back, I considered it. I am going to the NE in July to look aroud. But it was ugly BEFORE the recession. Just a different kind of ugly.
and it has inspired me to ask you all: what do we do?!
We are an American couple:
HE: mid 50's, from Buffalo, NE schools, Univ. at Berkeley, worked in the SE of the USA ("Boy, where do you come from?"), moved to Europe (Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Spain, Portugal, France, Switz.). And now: W. Africa.
SHE: past 30, from NYC, college in CT, worked in NYC, moved to Paris.
Together we have lived in Spain/Portugal/France and W. Africa.
At this moment I am writing to you from France, where the wine is fine, but the housing market is expensive (and stable, no subprimes !). It is a beautiful country, but we will always be "outsiders".
Europe in general is beautiful, and yes the health systems are great. But to register and work here is a real pain. And expensive (thus the "free" medical services). Europe, as someone aptly put it, is a museum.
So, we are considering a move to the Western part of the US (MT, OR, WY, ID) - we are considering these places as New England is way too crowded and tax intensive, the SE is the same and too hot/humid for us in the summer.
In planning a trip out West, we are almost looking at it as our trip to South Africa, in that everyone speaks English, but it is foreign territory to us.
So after all my mumbo-jumbo : do you think that we will find a good quality of life in the US? friendly people? Decent food? Nature? space?
Or is the state of America on the decline, and we should just remain gypsies?!
All the best to you,
Amo
Hi there, I moved all over the world and the U.S. as a military brat and ex-military myself, my folks eventually retired overseas as they found it cheaper in Australia and some beautiful places for the bang of the buck! I loved it there too and almost didn't come back.
Unfortunately U.S. is just getting very expensive but I told myself I wanted my kids to grow up American and maybe you don't agree after traveling the world so intensely, yes you will feel culture shock especially if you land in Wyoming but that is one of the few affordable places in the United State unfortunately. And truly there are some great things about America you just can't experience unless you grow up here, for example ask yourself if you were born in Mexico, China, Brazil, etc. would you have a gypsy soul as you do now?
I would look around though as in the destination of the United States where you move back to is very important, Montana on your list unfortunately is one of the least friendly places to outsiders and once you get to CO, OR, ID, AZ, NM there is a term called "californication" where so many people have moved out of california because it is expensive and those neighbor states are getting expensive as well. A couple places worth checking out Fort Collins, CO Spokane, WA Boise, ID Bend, OR are all alright for now it depending what your looking for. Good luck!
I've lived in the deep South now for 23 years. I've had jobs that dealt very extensively with Southern Baptist churches. Yes, true, not every Southern Baptist would fall into certain categories, but I can tell you without a doubt that as a whole, those who are "devout" followers of that denomination are indeed extremely judgemental and intolerant of many others. Oh yes, they'll shake your hand and smile to your face, but once you leave the room... well... luckily, not everyone who place themselves into the Southern Baptist slot are "devout" with it.
Anyway, that's from first hand experience, and there you have it, I clarified the subsection it applies to. It's not "worse" than generalizing an entire country that is thousands of square miles in size. The American South has always been much more conservative than the rest of the country in many ways, and that's unlikely to change. But there are many regions in the country, and while you can *somewhat* generalize about the attitudes in one region here, you cannot clump all of America into one stereotype - it's simply too large for that.
Yes I can tell you there are ultra-liberal places (ie, Boulder, CO) mind you people like to clump "liberal" with "openmindedness" and they are the least openminded people I have met ... it's their way or the highway and their way usually means drugs, alcohol, sleeping around, atheists, I rather have it where the "close-minded" people were the God-fearing, go to Church, patriotic and concerned with their families. Frankly there are good apples and bad apples anywhere you go in this country but being in such a pluralistic country, it has to go through a social-war zone such as the 60s civil rights movement as the South was a lot more diverse. Today other parts of the country are going through the same thing and the war is barely starting, for California had the Rodney King and Watts Riots in the 80s an example "The Border War" along California to Texas today is another example of a pluralistic social-war zone which has just begun, in that aspect the South is ahead of the crop for social race-relations.
'm an American living in Brasil for about two years now, but I've lived pretty much all over the US. I think it's important to remember that when compairing people and cultures of the world, you have to keep in mind the size of most European countries compared to the size of the US. If you assume something to be true about, say, Italy for example, you have a much larger chance of being correct than to say something similar about the US as a whole. It's just too big. Everyplace I've lived in the US has had vastly different cultures. From Michigan(where I was born), to Florida, to So. Cal. Though you must be careful not to make gross generalizations when refering to any particular group, some generalizations tend to be right on the money.
My Brasillian wife and I moved to Brasil from SanDiego not because we were tired of the city-in fact it's easily the most wonderful city in the world (IMHO), but we both have always wanted to build our own home just the way we wanted. Unfortunately, unless you are quite wealthy, it's almost impossible to do so in southern California. Too bad. Just an example of the many wonders of California: my friends and I used to wake up at 6:00, go surfing at dawn for a few hours, the hop in the car and by noon, be snowboarding at Big Bear mountain. All that was required, was the physical ability to do so. Of course the cost of living is expensive, but most Californians would rather pay the extra expense to live in a place where other people wait an entire year to vacation to.
Any place you live will have its drawbacks. One of the main reasons I left the US was the out of control political correctness. It sickens me. I'm always amazed how Americans tend to ignore the truth if it is unpleasant ant it makes them feel better to do so.
I have a neighbor who is originally from England. She goes back there every year or so and I really like hearing her thoughts on her former homeland and the way of life there. Her biggest complaint is that England is now over-run with and catering to the Muslims, but then she has complaints about living here also, lol, so go figure.
i dont think anyone here is saying it s ideal anywhere--that's why we're here. there are pros and cons everywhere and we're each trying to sort it out and make the best choice, as life goees on.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. It's hard for my wife to make a decision to move to the US because she has only lived there for 1 year when she was in college. I think a 1 year "trial period" is in order.
well it was very hard for me to make this decision as well, i miss my country but i see there's no future there. as someone else pointed out money usually stays in the same family, and if you are poor most likely you will be poor forever. but america has opportunities that you will not find in other countries.
I am a Brit who has lived in the US for over 30 years now and also have heard about the changes in the homeland. Britain is also in a severe financial depression right now and their health system as I remember it has gone down the drain. ( 3 of my siblings along w/myself left the country for what we believed to be greener pastures) Tony Blair is much to blame for his draining the British economy and sending thousands of young people to fight a so called war which was not theirs to begin with. When are we going to wake up and realize that both may become third world countries if the bleeding is not stopped quickly.
i would say it depends on your political views, because i know alot of americans leave for political reasons, particularly those in europe, but judging from your tax comment, i will say that you are a right wing person, so the politics in america wont bother you at all. i have moved out of america for political reasons myself, so i wouldnt necesarily consider going back because it is becoming more authoritarian each day, but most right wingers arent bothered by that. with that said, i do miss alot of things about america, and i think america is alot better than france in many ways. here are some of the things that are great about america. the food. i really miss the golden coral, and old country bufet type stuff. you simply cant find that anywhere in europe, especially for that price $9. in fact, i dont think you can find much of anything for $9 in europe. thats one thing i really hate about living overseas is that things are usually much more expensive, but people dont necesarily make more money. take france for example, the people make much less than americans, but things cost alot more. i also miss how things are open so late. in many european countries, everything closes at 18:00, and you wont be able to find anything. i liked how in america, everything was open til 20h and even later. driving is another thing. i absolutely cant stand round abouts. i also hate 1 lane roads. if anything is blocked then you are screwed. i think it probably takes twice as long to get anywhere in europe because of the way it is designed. and even if you can drive anywhere, you wont be able to park your car. i also hate driving manual, and it seems like everyone here has them, and you wont be able to resell an automatic. it just feels alot more convenient back home. people. they are much friendlier in america, although they dont actually mean it, but still it is very nice to feel acknowledged and feel like you are alive. i think the way europeans act would be interpreted as rude, especially for our midwestern usa, and southern usa friends. efficiency. i think things get done better in america. one example is finding a place to live. renting an apartment can be a nightmare in europe, especially going through estate agents. since they work on comision, alot of dishonesty takes place, and people get lied to and ripped off. when i was in america, there was usually an apartment manager on site that would give you the keys to the apt, and you can look at it to see if you like it. which brings me to another point. americans seem to trust each other alot more, and i miss that. i doubt any european would ever just give you the keys to a house or apt to look at. i remember back in america, i would go to agents, theyd give me the keys to about 3 or 4 properties, and i would look at them, and then return the keys. renting apts felt so much easier back home. they didnt ask you for proof of income or anything. all they did was a credit check. another way to show how much europeans trust you is when you open a bank account. i just cant believe how much proof they ask for. i have found that america has alot of things we take for granted. for example, air conditioning. this is something that i treasure, but since moving here, i havent had ac and had to live with it. the great majority of europeans dont have air conditioning. america is also much more high tech. i know that universal healthcare is great for those who dont have money, but if you wanted some state of the art medical treatment, america is the place to do it. the shopping is also way better in america, and there are way more choices for you to buy things, on top of everything being so much cheaper. other random things i miss are the county fair. it is just such a fun event, and i dont think ive seen many of them here, but at the same time, the atmosphere is alot different, especially for small midwestern cities where you can recognise a good fraction of the people at the county fair. its kind of a way to catch up with people. i also love the american entertainment like dinner theatres. one in particular is midevil times in california. i have never seen anything like it anywhere else in the world. then there are renaisance festivals. there are just tons and tons of stuff that are great in america.
We are also considering a move back to America after spending 12 years living all over Europe (Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Italy). There are many things that make staying here attractive but we are starting to miss much about living in our own country.
At the same time, no matter how well you learn the language or how comfortable you start to feel, you are always going to the an outsider. Also, you reach a point when you'd like to spend more time with old friends and family. Once you move back to the States, you may find that your old friends won't want to talk about your experiences since it is not something they shared. Milan Kundera even wrote a book about the returning expat (called Ignorance) in which he describes this phenomena.
We moved home once (after our first four years) and found that the only people we could relate to were other former expats (and food lovers).
I know that feeling. Returning from C or S America wasn't that bad, but....returning from Nigeria ("the land of thieves" as it is called by the rest of Africa) has been different. I really loved it. Of course I was not in Lagos, Abuja, or Port Harcourt, but rather in the Cross River State in-between the towns of Uyo and Abak. Camping in the middle of a rain forest. Of course, our camp was really nice and the cook was a guy out of New Orleans, the best cook I have ever had the priviledge to have cook for me Ron Preacher by name, I've been trying to find him for the past several years. Aside from his culinary skills, he was a class act of a human being as well.
but judging from your tax comment, i will say that you are a right wing person, so the politics in america wont bother you at all.
I'm not sure if you're replying to me or the OP. I left the US as a republican, and in France I became a democrat and in the past year I've become Libertarian. Politics is a big problem in the US and the US has lost all the ideas of the founding fathers, the very same ideas that founded our country. It's sad because the majority of Americans aren't educated enough to even know what's going on. I know I wasn't when I was in the US. Part of that is getting older and wiser, but part of that is living in a different country, particularly a socialist (almost communist) country like France.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEITHALVA
i do miss alot of things about america, and i think america is alot better than france in many ways. here are some of the things that are great about america.
What a great list! I agree with almost everything except roundabouts & food. I love roundabouts. Much more efficient than stop lights. They keep traffic moving. One thing that's really dangerous in the US is people running red lights. With roundabouts that's much less of a problem.
And food. I used to think the American food was great. Every time we went back to the US for vacation I'd pig out and gain 5 pounds. This last time I went back I had mexican several times and I decided that I don't ever want to eat Mexican again. I felt "full" all day and wasn't even hungary for dinner.
Similar with Cracker Barrel. There is a lot of fat in their meals and those biscuits. And we split the apple dumpling cobbler between 3 adults. Sure it tastes great but you feel bad the rest of the day.
In Europe the meals are all done so that you don't feel stuffed or bloated all day. I don't know how they do it. Do we really need huge Cheesecake factory portions? We split the Chicken Madeira there and you get two chicken breasts. Who really needs to eat two chicken breasts? We split it and then split a cheesecake. Waiters don't like us but we try to eat responsibility.
Shopping is horrendous in France. Terrible service, everything is at least 50% more, there are never any sales, etc. I never buy anything in France. I wait until our yearly vacation and stock up.
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