Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It does annoy me when people think people are poor because they just are.. I'm well below the average wage, I didn't ask to be though.. If I could earn 100k a year, then I would.
It does annoy me when people think people are poor because they just are.. I'm well below the average wage, I didn't ask to be though.. If I could earn 100k a year, then I would.
From everything I read ( and hear) about the UK, it seems that you have a lot of low income people actually; everything is quite expensive ( high taxes?)
and then you have "upper class" that is quite wealthy.
The average salaries do not stretch too far.
The job market is really tight; a lot of jobs are taken by immigrants (and that has driven the salaries down for the locals)
BUT... nevertheless -
this ( let me quote another poster)
The country's collective psyche is deeply anchored on Calvinism. Calvinism views money as a sign of approval from God to the chosen ones, so that basically means that the poor are those deprived of the grace of God.
1) The country's collective psyche is deeply anchored on Calvinism. Calvinism views money as a sign of approval from God to the chosen ones, so that basically means that the poor are those deprived of the grace of God.
this is a good point. to people who are unfamiliar with this idea, it is very confusing to try to reconcile america's supposedly religious leanings with the views against the poor.
Is there a geographical wealth divide in Spain? Here in Britain, people in London and the South East of England feel like they support northern England and Scotland..
I also wonder about the pockets of poverty in Europe and how bad they truly are. I've heard that eastern Germany is still not quite the same as the former West Germany, and that there is a lot of poverty in southern Italy. What about Northern Ireland, or the Republic of Ireland? Has Northern Ireland truly recovered from the Troubles or are foreign companies still hesitatnt to invest there?
I recently saw two British movies, Harry Brown and Blitz that showed a very gritty version of London, particularly Harry Brown. I;m sure its exagerrated but I wonder how much. This contrasts very sharply with how London and England are portrayed in American movies. On the other hand in the news we've seen the rioting in British and French cities recently and I do honestly wonder since both the uK and France have much more generous social programs and police have much more rules to follow, they are still not satisfied and still claiming to be marginalized? Especially with the teens being electrocuted in Paris which sparked the riots. The people in the slums were angry that the cops alledgedly were "chasing" them and "forced" them to trespass into the power company's property. The cops did not beat them like Rodney King in Los Angeles or shoot them like Amadou Diallo in New York, yet it sparked all those riots. And isn't it true the man whose police death sparked the recent London riots had a gun on him and had pointed it at the cops?
American culture just looks down on poor people a lot. Just look at movies, tv etc, where poor people are equated as dirty, lazy, losers.
I have to disagree with this. Movies usually side with the working class person or the underdog. The only exception is the stereotyped portrayal of rural people and Southerners by Hollywood, but then only Hollywood. If you listen to country music, much of it celebrates working class life and snubs its nose at the liberal elites.
The people in the slums were angry that the cops alledgedly were "chasing" them and "forced" them to trespass into the power company's property. The cops did not beat them like Rodney King in Los Angeles or shoot them like Amadou Diallo in New York, yet it sparked all those riots. And isn't it true the man whose police death sparked the recent London riots had a gun on him and had pointed it at the cops?
From my perspective, we in the USA do look down at our poor more so than in other countries (or at least the ones I have been in). We look at it as a almost being personal decision almost due to being uneducated, lazy, having too many children or even at times, almost "expected" due to the race (dare I say it? ). But we really have many different types of poverty here: in the inner cities that is generational; Appalachia and areas in like KY and Mississippi, and now the "new" poor due to the economy. And depending upon what group you are in, you "demand" certain things....
I also think because we are such an "individualistic" society, meaning that the individual and the power that he/she has is more important than that of the societal group (thanks to our Forefathers and Emerson and Thoreau) has a lot to do with how we look at being poor. Then add into the mix the "American Dream" ideology, and well, being "poor" is really just not acceptable!
I know that when I lived in Serbia, the poor were not looked down upon at all, and people tried to care for them (except for the gypsies...and even then many of them have money, but prefer to live like they do).
However, I think that in countries where the majority of the people are poor, it is more the "norm" and hence there is no real derision towards them, esp. if the country is like a dictatorship, for they then need to keep the people poor and uneducated so they can stay in power with the exception of what is now going on in the Middle Eastern areas.
But are there not some countries where poverty is almost non-existent like in Finland and Scandinavia due to their socialist leanings??
And one closing thought. During the depression, my mom told me that many people didn't even know they were poor as they had nothing to compare themselves with. They were isolated and weren't privy to newspapers or other media. So is this true do you think? That you really would not know you were poor (but meaning you have food and shelter) if you had nothing to compare yourself with, for often those people without "things" are quite happy? Just wondering...
If European countries had nearly the same percentages or numbers of racial minorities and illegal immigrants who were in their underclasses as the U.S. does, then I can assure you they'd be singing a very different tune about universal healthcare, education and other so-called entitlements in their respective countries.
The elephant in the room. Class and race go hand in hand in the US. On one side, people see welfare as a money transfer from largley white taxpayers to mostly Black and Hispanic recipiants and oppose it stealthly on those grounds. On the other side, Leftists see it the same way, and thus support it on "racial justice" grounds.
I also wonder about the pockets of poverty in Europe and how bad they truly are. I've heard that eastern Germany is still not quite the same as the former West Germany, and that there is a lot of poverty in southern Italy. What about Northern Ireland, or the Republic of Ireland? Has Northern Ireland truly recovered from the Troubles or are foreign companies still hesitatnt to invest there?
I recently saw two British movies, Harry Brown and Blitz that showed a very gritty version of London, particularly Harry Brown. I;m sure its exagerrated but I wonder how much. This contrasts very sharply with how London and England are portrayed in American movies. On the other hand in the news we've seen the rioting in British and French cities recently and I do honestly wonder since both the uK and France have much more generous social programs and police have much more rules to follow, they are still not satisfied and still claiming to be marginalized? Especially with the teens being electrocuted in Paris which sparked the riots. The people in the slums were angry that the cops alledgedly were "chasing" them and "forced" them to trespass into the power company's property. The cops did not beat them like Rodney King in Los Angeles or shoot them like Amadou Diallo in New York, yet it sparked all those riots. And isn't it true the man whose police death sparked the recent London riots had a gun on him and had pointed it at the cops?
There is still much poverty in parts of Eastern Europe-Moldova, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Kosovo for examples.
From my perspective, we in the USA do look down at our poor more so than in other countries (or at least the ones I have been in). We look at it as a almost being personal decision almost due to being uneducated, lazy, having too many children or even at times, almost "expected" due to the race (dare I say it? ). But we really have many different types of poverty here: in the inner cities that is generational; Appalachia and areas in like KY and Mississippi, and now the "new" poor due to the economy. And depending upon what group you are in, you "demand" certain things....
I also think because we are such an "individualistic" society, meaning that the individual and the power that he/she has is more important than that of the societal group (thanks to our Forefathers and Emerson and Thoreau) has a lot to do with how we look at being poor. Then add into the mix the "American Dream" ideology, and well, being "poor" is really just not acceptable!
I know that when I lived in Serbia, the poor were not looked down upon at all, and people tried to care for them (except for the gypsies...and even then many of them have money, but prefer to live like they do).
However, I think that in countries where the majority of the people are poor, it is more the "norm" and hence there is no real derision towards them, esp. if the country is like a dictatorship, for they then need to keep the people poor and uneducated so they can stay in power with the exception of what is now going on in the Middle Eastern areas.
But are there not some countries where poverty is almost non-existent like in Finland and Scandinavia due to their socialist leanings??
And one closing thought. During the depression, my mom told me that many people didn't even know they were poor as they had nothing to compare themselves with. They were isolated and weren't privy to newspapers or other media. So is this true do you think? That you really would not know you were poor (but meaning you have food and shelter) if you had nothing to compare yourself with, for often those people without "things" are quite happy? Just wondering...
You bring up some excellent points about the "poor" here in the U.S.
The greatest poverty I've witnessed here (and I currently live in the Detroit area) has been through Appalachia and parts of the very rural, very deep south. The poor in the inner-cities do have some outlets for assistance.
I agree that the poor aren't really looked down upon in East Euro...but yeah it seemed the gypsies were a distinct, seperate class of their own.
Re. your last paragraph-a coworker of min just returned from Cuba and was telling me "the people are so poor but they don't know it, they have nothing to compare their lives to". She found it really amazing that it was like this.
When did you live in Serbia?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
). But we really have many different types of poverty here: in the inner cities that is generational; Appalachia and areas in like KY and Mississippi, and now the "new" poor due to the economy. And depending upon what group you are in, you "demand" certain things....
