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Old 01-08-2012, 02:39 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,416 posts, read 23,391,935 times
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I think it is more of a stereotype. I have some friends from Ghana and without the accent I never would have known they are from Africa. Also, another thing I notice, is that a lot of the Africans you see, don't dress with a typical black person style that you might expect, so they kind of stand out a little bit more.
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:33 AM
Status: "What happen to fall?" (set 26 days ago)
 
4,353 posts, read 6,623,977 times
Reputation: 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna View Post
who told you that those features were not native of true blacks? In fact, they are. Those features that many Caucasions have originated in Africa.
I don't know what anthropology class you took, but its widely known that facial features originally developed based on the climate of a particular place. To assume that certain features designed for survival in cold climates originated in tropical and desert areas is quite naive. The presence of those features in warmer parts of the globe has more to do with migration and racial mixing than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
there seems to be a belief that all black people in Africa look one way which is not true. Not all Ghanians are darkskin with flat noses.
Of course not all Ghanians are dark skin, no one ever made such claim. Even in Ghana there was some racial mixture, a very small amount. Now, the vast majority are dark skin, much darker than the typical African American. This can't be denied.

Here, look how Obama would be classified in Ghana with his "black features" and all: Obroni Observations - An American Mom in Ghana: Obroni Obama

And he's light skin. Now, if being light skin is a such a common occurrence in Ghana (or anywhere in Western Africa), why are light skin people referred to as mixed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
Why do you keep on insisting this is true when I see them and intereact with them on a regular basis?
I'm not insisting on anything. I'm simply making a factual claim and you're twisting words and assuming things that were never said in order to continue insisting that there are no differences between Western Africans and African Americans.

You may be interacting with many Ghanian immigrants and their descendants, but by no means can an immigrant group be taken as an automatic representation of what the average person is like in their home country.

For example, in Quebec and Montreal there are large numbers of Mulatto Haitians, many of whom are professionals. Just because Quebequois interact on a regular basis with Mulatto Haitians doesn't mean that they represent the average appearance in Haiti. And in fact, they don't.

A very large number of Honduran immigrants are black and mulatto themselves. Anyone that interacts with them on a regular basis would probably think most Hondurans in Honduras are like that, but they're not.

The average Puerto Rican living in the US mainland, especially in the NY metro area, tends to be a little more black than the average Puerto Rican living on island.

There are plenty of other examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
They come in a variety of skin tones just like African americans.
Yes, but the vast majority look like this:



And like this:



It's starting to make sense why the average Ghanian would refer to a lighter skin person as Obroni, meaning mixed/white/foreigner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
That's the thing, a lot of African Americans are not that mixed.
The average African American is around 20% white. But that's besides the point since no one is talking about the degree of mixture, but rather that most African Americans are mixed while most West Africans are not. There's no need to deny this. Its obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
Some would have to go back several generations to find any White ancestors if they know any exist.
You can go on the 23andme website and do their DNA test and there it will show you where the genes currently making you who you are came from. There's no need to find the generation of when such and such ancestor added new genes to the DNA or to even know if any exist, because what matters is what makes a person right now.

I suggest you do that test and see what your results are. Its not even expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
So being just Black is all they know. You can't identify with a culture or identity you know nothing about, especially if its 10 generations back or more.
Many African Americans make such a huge effort to identify with some Western African culture they initially knew nothing about, especially considering that the average African American family has been in the US for well over 10 generations.

Being 'black' is not a culture, its a color/race. What the average African American knows is how to be an American. True, an American that was discriminated against for many decades and that created a sub-culture within the American culture, but it still remains part of American culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
Having an admixture is not like being biracial where you were raised by a parent of a different race/culture and you can identify with it.
What? African American culture is extremely westernized. Of all the Afro groups in the Western Hemisphere, African Americans are the least Africans of all in their traditions and daily lifestyle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
I am African American and I don't have a significant racial admixture and there are many others who don't.
Have you done a DNA test to know just how much admixture you do have? Otherwise, it would simply be speculation to assume what you just said.

But, the point here is that admixture is present in the average African American whereas it is not in the Western African, and that does makes a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
Not all of us have the same amount of racial admixture in us, it really varies. Some AAs have more racial admixture, and some have less.
Obviously. I really don't know why you keep insisting on this when the issue is whether the average African American has admixture, not how much. What is clear is that the average West African doesn't have racial admixture, the average African American does and this is something many African Americans have a hard time accepting. I already explained why African Americans have a hard time accepting this and put great effort to minimize it in my previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
So what you are saying does not apply to all of us.
No, only to most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
Many of us just identify with the race we look like the most, so if you just have predominantly Black ancestry & look Black than that is how you are going to identify.
That's where the problem lies. If a person looks "mostly" like one thing, it automatically means they also show signs of something else. It means evidence of admixture and such people are mixed. That they have issues accepting their mixed selves is another story, but being mixed is generally not a choice. A person simply is mixed whether they want to accept it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna
I think ppl are under the assumption that all AAs look & are mixed and that is not the truth--in some regions many AAs sometimes get mistaken for Africans by Ghanians and Nigerians
Here you go insisting on things no one ever said. What I have said is that most African Americans are, in fact, mixed and that is the truth.

You even proved it by stating "in some regions many AAs sometimes get mistaken for Africans...".

"Some regions" would mean not in most regions.

"Many" is quite an ambiguous word, but lets not fool ourselves, we know most African Americans are not confused with West Africans neither in the US, in Africa or anywhere else in the world, for that matter.

"Sometimes" means most of the time they are not confused with West Africans.

Come on, you know the truth and what is being discussed here. While I understand why African Americans try so hard to not wanting to accept themselves for what they truly are (a mixed people), it still saddens me that people are still psychologically troubled with who they really are. I guess its better to pretend to be fully what is not, at least for the sake of remaining sane.

The interesting twist in all of this is that in most countries, mixed race people have no problems accepting their mixed self. There's none of this attempt to validate what is obviously an incorrect label for a mixed people. I even explained this in my previous post, it became a self-fulfilled prophecy.

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Old 01-08-2012, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Midwest
2,975 posts, read 3,991,708 times
Reputation: 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
I don't know what anthropology class you took, but its widely known that facial features originally developed based on the climate of a particular place. To assume that certain features designed for survival in cold climates originated in tropical and desert areas is quite naive. The presence of those features in warmer parts of the globe has more to do with migration and racial mixing than anything else.


Of course not all Ghanians are dark skin, no one ever made such claim. Even in Ghana there was some racial mixture, a very small amount. Now, the vast majority are dark skin, much darker than the typical African American. This can't be denied.

Here, look how Obama would be classified in Ghana with his "black features" and all: Obroni Observations - An American Mom in Ghana: Obroni Obama

And he's light skin. Now, if being light skin is a such a common occurrence in Ghana (or anywhere in Western Africa), why are light skin people referred to as mixed?


I'm not insisting on anything. I'm simply making a factual claim and you're twisting words and assuming things that were never said in order to continue insisting that there are no differences between Western Africans and African Americans.

You may be interacting with many Ghanian immigrants and their descendants, but by no means can an immigrant group be taken as an automatic representation of what the average person is like in their home country.

For example, in Quebec and Montreal there are large numbers of Mulatto Haitians, many of whom are professionals. Just because Quebequois interact on a regular basis with Mulatto Haitians doesn't mean that they represent the average appearance in Haiti. And in fact, they don't.

A very large number of Honduran immigrants are black and mulatto themselves. Anyone that interacts with them on a regular basis would probably think most Hondurans in Honduras are like that, but they're not.

The average Puerto Rican living in the US mainland, especially in the NY metro area, tends to be a little more black than the average Puerto Rican living on island.

There are plenty of other examples.


Yes, but the vast majority look like this:



And like this:



It's starting to make sense why the average Ghanian would refer to a lighter skin person as Obroni, meaning mixed/white/foreigner.


The average African American is around 20% white. But that's besides the point since no one is talking about the degree of mixture, but rather that most African Americans are mixed while most West Africans are not. There's no need to deny this. Its obvious.


You can go on the 23andme website and do their DNA test and there it will show you where the genes currently making you who you are came from. There's no need to find the generation of when such and such ancestor added new genes to the DNA or to even know if any exist, because what matters is what makes a person right now.

I suggest you do that test and see what your results are. Its not even expensive.


Many African Americans make such a huge effort to identify with some Western African culture they initially knew nothing about, especially considering that the average African American family has been in the US for well over 10 generations.

Being 'black' is not a culture, its a color/race. What the average African American knows is how to be an American. True, an American that was discriminated against for many decades and that created a sub-culture within the American culture, but it still remains part of American culture.


What? African American culture is extremely westernized. Of all the Afro groups in the Western Hemisphere, African Americans are the least Africans of all in their traditions and daily lifestyle.


Have you done a DNA test to know just how much admixture you do have? Otherwise, it would simply be speculation to assume what you just said.

But, the point here is that admixture is present in the average African American whereas it is not in the Western African, and that does makes a difference.


Obviously. I really don't know why you keep insisting on this when the issue is whether the average African American has admixture, not how much. What is clear is that the average West African doesn't have racial admixture, the average African American does and this is something many African Americans have a hard time accepting. I already explained why African Americans have a hard time accepting this and put great effort to minimize it in my previous post.


No, only to most.


That's where the problem lies. If a person looks "mostly" like one thing, it automatically means they also show signs of something else. It means evidence of admixture and such people are mixed. That they have issues accepting their mixed selves is another story, but being mixed is generally not a choice. A person simply is mixed whether they want to accept it or not.


Here you go insisting on things no one ever said. What I have said is that most African Americans are, in fact, mixed and that is the truth.

You even proved it by stating "in some regions many AAs sometimes get mistaken for Africans...".

"Some regions" would mean not in most regions.

"Many" is quite an ambiguous word, but lets not fool ourselves, we know most African Americans are not confused with West Africans neither in the US, in Africa or anywhere else in the world, for that matter.

"Sometimes" means most of the time they are not confused with West Africans.

Come on, you know the truth and what is being discussed here. While I understand why African Americans try so hard to not wanting to accept themselves for what they truly are (a mixed people), it still saddens me that people are still psychologically troubled with who they really are. I guess its better to pretend to be fully what is not, at least for the sake of remaining sane.

The interesting twist in all of this is that in most countries, mixed race people have no problems accepting their mixed self. There's none of this attempt to validate what is obviously an incorrect label for a mixed people. I even explained this in my previous post, it became a self-fulfilled prophecy.

You can't compare African Americans to other groups of ppl because we are NOT them; maybe those other groups ARE mixed race on average which is why they view themselves as such. You fail to understand that not all AAs are as mixed as YOU think they are. Just because whenever you see an AA, they are very light complected with significant admixture does not mean they are the norm in many black cities. I live in a city that is over 90% Black and alot of AAs are not mixed race at all. the average AA is not the same skin tone or have the same racial admixture as Rihanna, Beyonce, Lauren London or Halle Berry.

I find it very arrogant of YOU to tell ME as an African American what we should identify as--and then to label us psychologically troubled? Wow. Very ignorant. Are White Americans forced to identify as a mixed race group because they have Cherokee in their ancestry? No. So why the pressure for African Americans? Sounds like an attempt to divide an conquer to me.

the amount of racial admixture varies, & is not even that much among many of us. Why would I identify as mixed race when both my parents are darkskin Black poeple, my grand parents, my great grand parents and great great grandparents. They were all BLACK. Some African Americans, like me have just as little admixture as the average Ghanian. Why would I identify with some White or Native American ancestor from over 10-15 generations ago? I know nothing about them or their culture.

I live in a city that is over 90% Black so I know what most African Americans look like, and many of them come from households where both parents were Black, the grand parents were Black and great grand parents were Black as well.

You know nothing about African Americans to speak on them. And the same for Africans. Just because you see a youtube video of a group of Africans who are all dark means nothing. Not all of them are the same skin tone. Why don't you just take a trip to Ghana or Nigeria and you will be VERY surprised by the amount of diversity you will see there.





Quote:
Come on, you know the truth and what is being discussed here. While I understand why African Americans try so hard to not wanting to accept themselves for what they truly are (a mixed people), it still saddens me that people are still psychologically troubled with who they really are.
Super mixed black people you are talking about are a minority i.e Vanessa Williams. They don't make up the majority which is why AAs do not identify as such. I cannot identify as mixed race because as far as I can go back, no one is mixed or biracial in my family!

Last edited by nyanna; 01-08-2012 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Midwest
2,975 posts, read 3,991,708 times
Reputation: 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
I don't know what anthropology class you took, but its widely known that facial features originally developed based on the climate of a particular place. To assume that certain features designed for survival in cold climates originated in tropical and desert areas is quite naive. The presence of those features in warmer parts of the globe has more to do with migration and racial mixing than anything else.


Of course not all Ghanians are dark skin, no one ever made such claim. Even in Ghana there was some racial mixture, a very small amount. Now, the vast majority are dark skin, much darker than the typical African American. This can't be denied.

Here, look how Obama would be classified in Ghana with his "black features" and all: Obroni Observations - An American Mom in Ghana: Obroni Obama

And he's light skin. Now, if being light skin is a such a common occurrence in Ghana (or anywhere in Western Africa), why are light skin people referred to as mixed?


I'm not insisting on anything. I'm simply making a factual claim and you're twisting words and assuming things that were never said in order to continue insisting that there are no differences between Western Africans and African Americans.

You may be interacting with many Ghanian immigrants and their descendants, but by no means can an immigrant group be taken as an automatic representation of what the average person is like in their home country.

For example, in Quebec and Montreal there are large numbers of Mulatto Haitians, many of whom are professionals. Just because Quebequois interact on a regular basis with Mulatto Haitians doesn't mean that they represent the average appearance in Haiti. And in fact, they don't.

A very large number of Honduran immigrants are black and mulatto themselves. Anyone that interacts with them on a regular basis would probably think most Hondurans in Honduras are like that, but they're not.

The average Puerto Rican living in the US mainland, especially in the NY metro area, tends to be a little more black than the average Puerto Rican living on island.

There are plenty of other examples.


Yes, but the vast majority look like this:



And like this:



It's starting to make sense why the average Ghanian would refer to a lighter skin person as Obroni, meaning mixed/white/foreigner.
Showing a youtube clip of one area of ghana does not mean that this is what the average Ghanian looks like.

I can show you a clip of my city of nothing but lightskin Black people, even though the vast majority are brown or darker.

I have friends who are from Africa and seen many of them to know they are not all one skin tone. And any African will tell you that its very diverse where they are from. Why don't you just take a trip there and see for yourself instead of spreading this ignorance about a group of people you know little about
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,615 posts, read 5,644,796 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna View Post
Not all of us have the same amount of racial admixture in us, it really varies. Some AAs have more racial admixture, and some have less. So what you are saying does not apply to all of us. Many of us just identify with the race we look like the most, so if you just have predominantly Black ancestry & look Black than that is how you are going to identify. I think ppl are under the assumption that all AAs look & are mixed and that is not the truth--in some regions many AAs sometimes get mistaken for Africans by Ghanians and Nigerians
Some Africans and African Americans assume that Melanesians are Africans...


TELEK - West Papua, (merdeka mix) - YouTube

As well as others from the Pacific and Asia...


Black people of Asia.mpg - YouTube

"Africans" and "African Americans" don't have a monopoly on "blackness" and phenotypes don't necessarily "match" genotypes...
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Midwest
2,975 posts, read 3,991,708 times
Reputation: 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
Some Africans and African Americans assume that Melanesians are Africans...


TELEK - West Papua, (merdeka mix) - YouTube

As well as others from the Pacific and Asia...


Black people of Asia.mpg - YouTube
Many people would mistake them for being Black/African, including Whites or any other group of people, until they find out what they are. Just so you will remember it was a White President who created the One drop rule and all of the racial classifications like quadroon, octoroon, etc It was because of him this One Drop Rule exists in the first place.

Quote:
"Africans" and "African Americans" don't have a monopoly on "blackness" and phenotypes don't necessarily "match" genotypes...
I fail to see your point in stating this. African Americans, like me have the right to claim our own 'blackness'.

African Americans identify as African American because that is what many of us are. Many of our phenotypes are African as well as our genotype--such may not be the case for Melanesians but they dont have anything to do with the discussion. We are not trying to claim Melanesians (they have their own culture), or the other non-African black people from Papua New Guinea, we respect they have their own culture. There has never been an argument about the Melanesians so why are you creating one? Besides, I doubt the average American even knows what a Melanesian is nor do they care.

Last edited by nyanna; 01-08-2012 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
18,998 posts, read 16,742,212 times
Reputation: 7637
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna View Post
I was lurking in a few threads that discussed African Americans, and there were many posters who commented that AAs tend to be lighter than Black people from Africa which is totally not true. I happen to be African American, and darkskin, and in my area there are many who are as well. Is it a regional thing? Where some ppl live do they happen to see more lighter toned AAs than darkskinned ones?
I guess people from West Africa look somewhat similar to AA's, but Africans from other parts look quite different from AA's. The Sudanese or Ethiopians for instance look very different.
What I am wondering regarding skin color, according to evolution blacks living in the Midwest generation after generation should gradually become lighter-skinned as I read somewhere that the only purpose of black skin is to protect from the sun. In Michigan etc. the problem is the other way round, black people there are recommended to take vitamin supplements to undo their dark skin. So evolution should gradually make their skin lighter again, right? Not to mention that most people work inside these days, so sun exposure is even more reduced.
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Midwest
2,975 posts, read 3,991,708 times
Reputation: 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I guess people from West Africa look somewhat similar to AA's



Nigerian Girls STUCK UP????? - YouTube


That Hair Company (Brazilian) 1 Month Update - YouTube

the Nigerian girls above look like many African Americans where I live and in my family.

Both Africans and African Americans can share the same sterotypical Black phenotype (darkskin, kinky hair, round nose)--I've seen many African Americans who do.

You can't always tell who is from West Africa and who is AA.


Quote:
but Africans from other parts look quite different from AA's. The Sudanese or Ethiopians for instance look very different.
Yes, Africa is very diverse.
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:57 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
18,998 posts, read 16,742,212 times
Reputation: 7637
In the Americas I think Haitians look most African. Followed by Brazilians from Bahia.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
18,998 posts, read 16,742,212 times
Reputation: 7637
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna View Post

Nigerian Girls STUCK UP????? - YouTube


That Hair Company (Brazilian) 1 Month Update - YouTube

the Nigerian girls above look like many African Americans where I live and in my family.

Both Africans and African Americans can share the same sterotypical Black phenotype (darkskin, kinky hair, round nose)--I've seen many African Americans who do.

You can't always tell who is from West Africa and who is AA.




Yes, Africa is very diverse.
The Nigerian is cute
The one in the second video doesn't look West African to me, more like Somalian maybe. Hm, no, Somalian neither. No idea, she looks a bit like a black model years ago.
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