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Unread 01-09-2012, 11:11 AM
 
3,435 posts, read 3,889,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna View Post
Many will be offended by the fact that you stated lightskinned Black people are not entirely African. They are apart of the Black diversity that is in Africa and America. There are lightskinned Black people in Africa too. Not all of them are very darkskin with stereotypical features.

I noticed that with other ethnic groups, people do not feel the need to separate them and say one is less or more based on skin tone. For instance with Indians, no one will say that a lightskinned Indian is less Indian than a darkskinned one. Look at the Bollywood actress Aishwaraya Rai, she is very lightskinned with blue eyes yet I never hear anyone questioning her Indian-ness and saying that she isn't a real Indian because she may have Caucasion ancestry. People simply accept the fact that Indians come in a wide array of skin tones, and features end of story. However with Black people, we are not given that same respect.
Indians are considered Caucasoid with some Australoid admixture. So when you see an Indian that looks very "white" they're probably still fully Indian. It's a very different situation for Sub-Saharan Africans, because most of them don't have Caucasian admixture. Caucasian admixture comes into play when you look at the African diaspora, not so much in Africa itself.
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Unread 01-09-2012, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Pāhoa, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
1,483 posts, read 3,132,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna View Post
I noticed that with other ethnic groups, people do not feel the need to separate them and say one is less or more based on skin tone. For instance with Indians, no one will say that a lightskinned Indian is less Indian than a darkskinned one. Look at the Bollywood actress Aishwaraya Rai, she is very lightskinned with blue eyes yet I never hear anyone questioning her Indian-ness and saying that she isn't a real Indian because she may have Caucasion ancestry. People simply accept the fact that Indians come in a wide array of skin tones, and features end of story. However with Black people, we are not given that same respect.
Huh?

Quite a few ethnic groups are stratified and separated by skin color. For instance, Pilipinos use such terms as "maputi" ("fair"), "mestizo" ("mixed"), "kayumanggi" ("olive"/brown), "moreno"("dark"), etc. to separate themselves by skin color. In addition to that, there are also cultural, linguistic, religious, and other differences among the peoples of the Philippines. As Neuling mentioned, the situation in India is way more complex than the situation for African Americans in the United States. Indians separate themselves by skin color as well as language, religion, caste origin, and a host of other attributes. There are reasons why India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh now three separate countries, instead of being united as they were during the British Colonial Period from 1612 to 1947.

However, using skin color to separate a people is relatively benign compared to using "blood quantum." American Indians, Native Hawaiians, and other indigenous peoples are often divided by "blood quantum." There are folks that are 1/16th Cherokee (or some other tribe) that are "enrolled members" and folks that are 1/4th Cherokee (or some other tribe) that are denied tribal membership (or worse yet, kicked out of a tribe), simply because they possess the "wrong bloodline." Do a little research on the "Cherokee Freedmen" to see how "blood quantum" and "skin color" can be used simultaneously to separate a people.
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Unread 01-09-2012, 11:49 AM
 
3,435 posts, read 3,889,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
Huh?

Quite a few ethnic groups are stratified and separated by skin color. For instance, Pilipinos use such terms as "maputi" ("fair"), "mestizo" ("mixed"), "kayumanggi" ("olive"/brown), "moreno"("dark"), etc. to separate themselves by skin color. In addition to that, there are also cultural, linguistic, religious, and other differences among the peoples of the Philippines. As Neuling mentioned, the situation in India is way more complex than the situation for African Americans in the United States. Indians separate themselves by skin color as well as language, religion, caste origin, and a host of other attributes. There are reasons why India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh now three separate countries, instead of being united as they were during the British Colonial Period from 1612 to 1947.

However, using skin color to separate a people is relatively benign compared to using "blood quantum." American Indians, Native Hawaiians, and other indigenous peoples are often divided by "blood quantum." There are folks that are 1/16th Cherokee (or some other tribe) that are "enrolled members" and folks that are 1/4th Cherokee (or some other tribe) that are denied tribal membership (or worse yet, kicked out of a tribe), simply because they possess the "wrong bloodline." Do a little research on the "Cherokee Freedmen" to see how "blood quantum" and "skin color" can be used simultaneously to separate a people.
agreed for the most part, but I think kayumanggi and moreno are the same thing- brown/typical Filipino skin color. It's just that one is a native term and the other is Spanish. "Maitim" is the word for dark brown or black skin, and it's the only one of those words with a negative connotation.
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Unread 01-09-2012, 12:59 PM
 
15,910 posts, read 7,648,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
Indians are considered Caucasoid with some Australoid admixture. So when you see an Indian that looks very "white" they're probably still fully Indian. It's a very different situation for Sub-Saharan Africans, because most of them don't have Caucasian admixture. Caucasian admixture comes into play when you look at the African diaspora, not so much in Africa itself.
Genetically it is the other way round. The substrate of almost all Indians is Australoid, the whiter shades are the result of later Indo-Aryan and Semitic admixture. But also the Drawidian South Indians are the way they are because of external admixture.Their ancestors arrived in what is now India just briefly before the Indo-Aryans, but at a time when India had already been populated by Australoid people for tens of thousands of years.
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Unread 01-09-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Pāhoa, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
1,483 posts, read 3,132,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
agreed for the most part, but I think kayumanggi and moreno are the same thing- brown/typical Filipino skin color. It's just that one is a native term and the other is Spanish. "Maitim" is the word for dark brown or black skin, and it's the only one of those words with a negative connotation.
I was taught that "kayumanggi" ("olive"/brown) represented a slightly lighter skin tone than "moreno" (dark or "brown") and that "maitim" (dark brown/black) represented a darker skin tone than "moreno." Tagalog has many Spanish loanwords, so I'm not sure that "kayumanggi" and "moreno" are used interchangeably describe the same thing. Some folks also say that "kayumanggi" is used to describe just skin color, while "moreno" is used to describe objects as well as skin color. Considering that English has words to describe different shades of brown, such as beige, bronze, sienna, "burnt sienna", tan, taupe, sepia, umber, ochre, ecru, khaki, fawn, chestnut, etc., different terms in Tagalog are probably used to make similar distinctions.
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Unread 01-09-2012, 01:02 PM
 
3,098 posts, read 1,763,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyanna View Post
I was lurking in a few threads that discussed African Americans, and there were many posters who commented that AAs tend to be lighter than Black people from Africa which is totally not true. I happen to be African American, and darkskin, and in my area there are many who are as well. Is it a regional thing? Where some ppl live do they happen to see more lighter toned AAs than darkskinned ones?
I think slavery played a large part in the tone differences and features of AA's vs Africans.
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Unread 01-09-2012, 01:03 PM
 
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Gee, I don't think applying all those colors to humans makes sense, even my skin color changes with the seasons
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Unread 01-09-2012, 01:17 PM
 
3,435 posts, read 3,889,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
I was taught that "kayumanggi" ("olive"/brown) represented a slightly lighter skin tone than "moreno" (dark or "brown") and that "maitim" (dark brown/black) represented a darker skin tone than "moreno." Tagalog has many Spanish loanwords, so I'm not sure that "kayumanggi" and "moreno" are used interchangeably describe the same thing. Some folks also say that "kayumanggi" is used to describe just skin color, while "moreno" is used to describe objects as well as skin color. Considering that English has words to describe different shades of brown, such as beige, bronze, sienna, "burnt sienna", tan, taupe, sepia, umber, ochre, ecru, khaki, fawn, chestnut, etc., different terms in Tagalog are probably used to make similar distinctions.
I guess different people use it differently. I often hear "morena, mestiza, chinita?" Which is equivalent to how people in the US say "do you prefer blondes, brunettes, or red heads?"

So I always took "morena" to mean typical brown-skin Filipina. And I always understood that "kayumanggi" meant the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Genetically it is the other way round. The substrate of almost all Indians is Australoid, the whiter shades are the result of later Indo-Aryan and Semitic admixture. But also the Drawidian South Indians are the way they are because of external admixture.Their ancestors arrived in what is now India just briefly before the Indo-Aryans, but at a time when India had already been populated by Australoid people for tens of thousands of years.

Yeah I had it mixed up. But my point was that Indians can look Caucasian because of thousands of years of Caucasian admixture in India. The same cannot be said for the majority of Sub-Saharan Africa. So most of the Caucasian-looking blacks are a result of slavery
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Unread 01-09-2012, 01:20 PM
 
Location: North Bay, California
63 posts, read 31,409 times
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if you notice, most african americans look a lot like africans. thats because they are african descendants. and most other african americans looks different from africans is because they probably have native american, european, latin, etc in them, which makes them look a little different. obviously
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Unread 01-09-2012, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Pāhoa, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
1,483 posts, read 3,132,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Gee, I don't think applying all those colors to humans makes sense, even my skin color changes with the seasons
I agree, my left arm alone is about 4 different shades of brown as the result of a "farmer's tan."

It doesn't really make sense to use "black", "white", "brown", "yellow", and "red" when it comes to describing human skin colors either, but Americans (and others) do it all of the time.
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