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I was just talking about the anti-Irish sentiment in the context of Australia being predominantly Protestant, like all the other nations founded by the UK.
ok but i wasnt really refering to the uk specifically or ireland either , germany , netherlands , switzerland have no history of any kind with ireland
Although Prussia as the leading German state was anti-catholic and dominated Germany for some time I never saw Germany as culturally protestant but mixed.
i think you might be confused by what i mean by culturally protestant , im not nesscesserily refering to the protestant catholic percentage of the population , austria,s population is predominantley catholic but it is culturally quite protestant in the way that italy or spain isnt , im using religon within a context which descibes national charechter
turkey and iran are both muslim countrys but iran is much more culturally islamic
i think you might be confused by what i mean by culturally protestant , im not nesscesserily refering to the protestant catholic percentage of the population , austria,s population is predominantley catholic but it is culturally quite protestant in the way that italy or spain isnt , im using religon within a context which descibes national charechter
turkey and iran are both muslim countrys but iran is much more culturally islamic
What does culturally protestant or catholic mean?
I am from Germany, a country where there are about as many catholics as there are protestants. Interestingly, people have more children in the protestant north, so I don't see that connection between family-friendliness and religion.
Here is a map of Europe, showing the number of kids per woman, the more red, the more kids: http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1277827,00.jpg
And a map of religion in Europe: http://www.nouvelle-europe.eu/images...e_complete.jpg
What does culturally protestant or catholic mean?
I am from Germany, a country where there are about as many catholics as there are protestants. Interestingly, people have more children in the protestant north, so I don't see that connection between family-friendliness and religion.
Here is a map of Europe, showing the number of kids per woman, the more red, the more kids: http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1277827,00.jpg
And a map of religion in Europe: http://www.nouvelle-europe.eu/images...e_complete.jpg
its not an offically recognised distinction by any means and its not my intent to sound divisive , i dont have anything against protestants or catholics , i was raised catholic but im now a none believer , i wasnt refering to birthrates , i just think some countries have a particular set of charechter traits and theese are often influenced by religon , europe is now in many ways a post religous collection of societys but i see many things in my own country which are catholic influenced , this despite the fact that ( contary to international opinon ) ireland is now a largely secular country , i had personality clashes in the past with people from a presbyterian backround , thier was no sectarianism but presbyterians tend to be quite serious and have little time for jokes when during business hours , irish people like to be ironic and irreverant a lot of the time but some cultures are taken aback by this and get the wrong impression , germanys industrious nature is heavily influence IMO by a prudent lutheran backround , italys artistic creative nature is influenced by its catholic influence , while those are generalitys and stereotypes , every stereotype has a degree of truth
But those things have nothing to do with being family-oriented. I guess it's fair to say that the US is clearly more family-oriented than catholic European countries.
Same here in Portugal by the way, it may officially be a catholic country, but in reality religion is mainly an old people's thing. There are many empty rituals and superstition even, but most people are not into religion at all. Same in Spain as far as I remember.
It seems to be that Catholic countries, most notably Italy, Latin America, Cuba, Ireland, Croatia, Poland, Spain and Portugal are more family-orientated than say the Protestant nations, like the US, UK, Netherlands.etc. They also seem more traditional with their beliefs about things like marriage or gender roles.
Was this pretty much the influence of the Catholic Church? Or is there something else going on? Perhaps it's just coincidence, since Southern European and Middle Eastern nations seem to have stronger family-ties even if they aren't Catholic, like Greece or Iran.
It also seemed Catholic nations had a more communal structure (piazzas, markets), while Protestantism combined with a sort of individualism that led to things like the Industrial revolution, the American revolution ad the nuclear family, which seems to have backfired as a 'familial institution' to bind society in contrast to the extent family.
The extended family, close ties thing was probably the norm, not the exception in most societies at all throughout history. Being "traditional" on that was the default and it's actually the emergence of the nuclear family and individualism that was a departure from that, so it's probably more about thinking why did the Protestant nations differ rather than why the others didn't.
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Originally Posted by Neuling
But those things have nothing to do with being family-oriented. I guess it's fair to say that the US is clearly more family-oriented than catholic European countries.
Same here in Portugal by the way, it may officially be a catholic country, but in reality religion is mainly an old people's thing. There are many empty rituals and superstition even, but most people are not into religion at all. Same in Spain as far as I remember.
What?? The US seems like the least family orientated country on earth! The cult of the individual and all. Unless you're thinking of the code-word for 'family values' which really means Christian morals.
What?? The US seems like the least family orientated country on earth! The cult of the individual and all. Unless you're thinking of the code-word for 'family values' which really means Christian morals.
Again, the number of kids is a good indicator, after all, what else is left of family-orientation without the willingness to have kids
Also, I think that individualism claim is hopelessly exaggerated, actually I find Europeans by and large more individualistic than Americans. Individualism does not rule out being socially aware and responsible, though. People can be very individualistic and yet have kids at the same time, there is no contradiction.
Also, I think that individualism claim is hopelessly exaggerated, actually I find Europeans by and large more individualistic than Americans. Individualism does not rule out being socially aware and responsible, though. People can be very individualistic and yet have kids at the same time, there is no contradiction.
You really think the US is more 'family orientated' than Italy is?
In Italy, maybe partly for economic reasons, but kids often stay with their parents until they're 30, grandparents often live with their grandchildren.
In the US you're a 'loser' if you're still at home past your mid 20s, everyone lives in a different state, a lot of people don't keep in touch with their family.
You really think the US is more 'family orientated' than Italy is?
In Italy, maybe partly for economic reasons, but kids often stay with their parents until they're 30, grandparents often live with their grandchildren.
In the US you're a 'loser' if you're still at home past your mid 20s, everyone lives in a different state, a lot of people don't keep in touch with their family.
Funny you mention that. There was a documentary on old Portuguese people about a week ago. They visited old people living alone in places without children, dying places. Their children don't come and visit them, let alone live there.
And even in the cities many old people live all alone. Every couple of weeks there is a report on yet another senior citizen having died in their apartment and rotted for weeks before anyone noticed.
Yes, it is the same in Europe. When there is an economic crisis, kids live with their parents for a longer time. Not because they want to, but because they have to. I read somewhere that the same thing is happening in the US now...
Yes, I think the US is at least as family-oriented as Italy (I guess there are certain myths still lingering).
What is different in the US is that family-orientation is often more limited to one's own family, in Italy and other places children are considered a part of society as a whole more than the possession of their parents.
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