Country you visited that has the coldest/warmest people? (live in, design)

[Scotslass]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

My grandfather was from Scotland, and was a warm, loving type. I think we should all go to Scotland to put Scotslass' characterization to the test. I'm curious now.

An experience you'll never forget, but in a good way

You'll all think I'm mad

[cmptrwlt]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Yes. I spent a summer working on a farm there, and I've travelled around the north (as a Norwegian speaker. Also travelled around as a non-speaker. The experiences weren't that different, except in Lappland). Not sure why you'd be surprised. I've read numerous comments around the internet and media about Norwegians being very reserved.

I am more surprised that an American bothered to learn Norwegian. Det er jo rimelig bortkastet kunnskap utenfor Norge...

Lappland is actually in Sweden.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Scotslass

An experience you'll never forget, but in a good way

You'll all think I'm mad

I had a friend when I was a teen whose ancestry was from Scotland. I think the family still owned land there. They'd spend time there every summer, somewhere outside of Edinburgh. They loved it. I can see how such a northerly people could be imagined as cold and dour. And the weather isn't the greatest, is it? Cloudy weather can cause people to withdraw. Seattle actually, is one of the "coldest" places I've ever been, haha!

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Dear syracusa, compared to most E European peoples, ANYONE in Europe would seem cold, lol! Where do you live? How do you feel about the people in the country where you live (if you're now outside of E Europe)?

Well, this is kind of true. Not that "warm" necessarily means "perfect".

E Europeans tend to be very warm and hospitable, with an intense desire to connect with those around them...but the reverse of the medal is also lots of gossip, extreme judgementalism, and a desire to create closeness with someone by gossiping about a third party, etc.
This whole "warmth" has its seriously sucky side.

As for the country I live in currently, it is the US.
Americans continue to strike me as complete aliens. When I live in the midst of the general American self-absorption, I start to feel that a gossipy environment is hardly the worst thing in the world.

Like I said, the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. When someone gossips about someone else, this is a sign that a Cr**p is given. When everyone just focuses on themselves and people are virtually incapable of thinking too long about anyone else, in positive OR negative terms...that is sheer alienation...and I am not exactly a fan of this kind of living either.

[Scotslass]

Yeah Scotland's geographical location is odd, we are between the Atlantic and North sea. Where I come from on the west is warmer than the north and east, we have a "temperate" climate and definitely not a lot of sunshine, especially this year with the jet stream moving south its been the wettest and most miserable summer since records began Personally I hate the weather in all of the UK not just Scotland.

However in Axarquia, Andalucia it is quite the opposite, a lovely sub tropical climate with guaranteed 320 days of sunshine a year I cannot complain.

Many back home can suffer from SAD syndrome but still try to make the most of life, as short as it is.

Also many people just accept it and get on with life.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by Scotslass

Hmmm the Scots have always been a very generous nation of people who would help anyone in need very similar to the Irish. I've never know people here to be stingy or cold, quite the opposite. I don't know I'ive just met lots of people who tell me Scots are the most unique people they've known. I feel like this with the Irish too they are so warm and friendly. Words really cannot explain really, its just different?

Stereotypes are misleading, but reputation is more real I think. Everything I've ever heard about the people has been positive.
We are known to have a great sense of humour and know how to have a good time.

I hate to say people are cold, I don't want to judge a whole nation as being horrible by a few bad experiences but in a few tourist resorts in Spain I did meet a few cold people but I am not going to say all of the Spanish are like that, certainly not in my region. But anywhere i've went the league is just not the same. It must be our culture, I don't know but i've never met anyone like the Scottish or Irish.

I seem to have more of a laugh with the English ex pats here.

I would never contradict you because, like I said, I never had any real experience with Scots or Irish people. I just reported the stereotypes that my cultures perceives of Scotland. It is probably BS.

However, I do have more than enough experience with Americans of Scot-Irish descent (I am married into such a family) and I would not exactly call them "warm". But then again, these are neither Scots nor Irish. They are Americans - and despite all the stereotypes about America's phenomenal diversity, I find Americans to be quite homogeneous. There is a certain unique American-ness (mainly marked by self-absorption and a tendency to only see #1 in life) that seizes virtually EVERYONE by the time they become second generation immigrants.

So I can't talk, in all honesty, about authentic Scottish or Irish people.

[Scotslass]

Originally Posted by syracusa

But then again, these are neither Scots nor Irish. They are Americans - and despite all the stereotypes about America's phenomenal diversity, I find Americans to be quite homogeneous. There is a certain unique American-ness (mainly marked by self-absorption and a tendency to only see #1 in life) that seizes virtually EVERYONE by the time they become second generation immigrants.

So I can't talk, in all honesty, about authentic Scottish or Irish people.

Exactly, they are not Scots or Irish, totally different. I remember the majority of the folks I knew in the Carolinas were Scottish decent (Majority of the Scots colonized that area) I didn't feel like they had any Scots in them. However I hope one day you will be able to meet some true Scots or Irish.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by syracusa

Well, this is kind of true. Not that "warm" necessarily means "perfect".

E Europeans tend to be very warm and hospitable, with an intense desire to connect with those around them...but the reverse of the medal is also lots of gossip, extreme judgementalism, and a desire to create closeness with someone by gossiping about a third party, etc.
This whole "warmth" has its seriously sucky side.

As for the country I live in currently, it is the US.
Americans continue to strike me as complete aliens. When I live in the midst of the general American self-absorption, I start to feel that a gossipy environment is hardly the worst thing in the world.

Like I said, the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. When someone gossips about someone else, this is a sign that a Cr**p is given. When everyone just focuses on themselves and people are virtually incapable of thinking too long about anyone else, in positive OR negative terms...that is sheer alienation...and I am not exactly a fan of this kind of living either.

Where in the US, and what age group, roughly? I only observed that kind of gossip once in Russia, so I was lucky, but it was a bit of a shock. (I'm sure I was the subject of gossip, but I was above the fray, for the most part.) I don't know to what extent it's possible to separate national characteristics that might be a result of the Soviet regime (envy of others, for ex.), and what is authentically part of the national character.

I don't want to get too off-topic here, just wondering where in the US you are.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Where in the US, and what age group, roughly? I only observed that kind of gossip once in Russia, so I was lucky, but it was a bit of a shock. (I'm sure I was the subject of gossip, but I was above the fray, for the most part.) I don't know to what extent it's possible to separate national characteristics that might be a result of the Soviet regime (envy of others, for ex.), and what is authentically part of the national character.

I don't want to get too off-topic here, just wondering where in the US you are.

I am in the South, Atlanta area.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

I only observed that kind of gossip once in Russia, so I was lucky, but it was a bit of a shock. (I'm sure I was the subject of gossip, but I was above the fray, for the most part.)

Yes, you were - I can guarantee you that.


You are right in that it can be difficult to separate traits resulted from the communist regime from traits of national character... and both cultural outsiders who miss certain local nuances, as well as cultural insiders too blinded by ethnocentrism, could guess wrong.

In my opinion, the gossipy aspect of such cultures has a lot more to do with centuries-old collectivism, a question of national character, than it has to do strictly with the Soviet regime.
The Soviet system and agenda was just a perfect fit on the highly collective, everyone-into-everyone-else's-business character of most E European nations, which had already been in place for centuries.

The "envy of others" is hardly a mere teaching of the Soviet regime. Collective, agricultural societies, which is what EE had been way before the Soviets arrived, tend to be very egalitarian by nature - of course, if you take away the rich (aristocracy type) at the top, which were very few and not part of the every day life of regular people/local community anyway.
Otherwise, regular people in collective societies are largely the same, economically speaking, and they are hardly competitive. Collaboration, communion and reciprocal help was 100 times more important than personal advancement and interest. Usually, these people were poor by western standards and they relied a lot on the local, organic community for reciprocal help. These centuries-old influences still persist, even in the middle of the wildest free market system.

There is an old saying in my culture, for example, about driven people who spent too much time working around their farm/house/job to get more things done, to get ahead, to achieve a lot, what have you.
They used to be called "work-greedy" - and that surely was NOT a good thing in the eyes of the others. These were people who used to be considered too cold, too self-interested, too greedy for personal advancement, to be accepted and liked by the community.

The same thing would be beyond extolled in anglo-saxon, protestant cultures (oh, the hard-worker!!).

So yes, cultures construct reality in amazingly different ways.

For people with a strong collective national character, relationships with others in the community tend to be extremely important. Often times, you are expected to place the need to belong ahead of any raw personal interest.

I remember this joke about Ivan (a Russian with 2 goats) who has a neighbor with 7 goats and he is bothered by this situation. God shows up and asks him why he is upset, and Ivan replies that he doesn't like the fact that his neighbor has 7 goats. God asks him: "do you want me to give you 5 more goats so you will have 7 too?", to which Ivan replies: "No, Lord, I want you to take 5 goats away from him".

Not sure how funny this sounds to various cultural ears...but I am sure many would be shocked to hear I sometimes can feel Ivan's pain.

When you live in a world where zealot workaholics in serious need of a life keep pushing up the standard for what "enough work" is, then I will certainly reach an Ivan-esque point and secretly pray for their 5 goats to drop dead or something of that sort. If their work was completely unrelated to mine and if my work was not compared to theirs, I could not care less that they take care of 1000 goats.

But if he makes me look unacceptable for taking care of only 2 goats and I don't get paid/promoted or risk being fired because I refuse to be the same type of workaholic and practically acquiesce to the rat race...then we are having a problem in our hands..and yes, my sentiments will be at least somewhat like Ivan's.

On a related note, I found this recent NY Times article to be BEYOND phenomenal and severely DUE:

The 'Busy' Trap - NYTimes.com

Unfortunately, we did get off-topic a bit...but in the end, it's all related. :-)

[tomahawk19]

Cold: all Scandinavians, Germans.

Warm: Greeks, Turks, South Africans, Brasilians