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Uhm I agree, and what are you talking about? Someone said Chicago should be in this thread and I disagreed saying it shouldn't. Chicago has it's Italians, but it certainly is not an Italian city. Never said that Italians in Chicago are as an Italian on the East Coast......
I prefaced it with "no offense." Meaning, I know they're there, but when I went around Melrose Park IL or "The Hill" looking for a meal, I was expecting to be socked in with the feeling of being in an Italian neighborhood. I was sort of looking for that. Very few East Coast cities are hanging on to this - maybe South Philly. When you're in St. Clair West (Toronto) or San Leonard (Montreal), you KNOW you are in an Italian neighborhood. That's all. Peace.
While Chicago has it's fair share of Italian heritage and people, it should not be mentioned in this thread at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoist123
Chicagoist123, mea maxima culpa. As I stated in my reply to another poster:
Although Chicago is not an option in this survey (maybe by virtue of their numbers, maybe because of their assimilation, maybe something else) but they are certainly 'proud to be Italian', even in the best possible description of that term, still today!
Some 500,000 Italian-Americans about the population of a medium-sized Italian city live in Chicago.
Then Chicago is my choice as in...other.
Best regards,
HomeIsWhere...
P.S. No offense taken, after all this is merely a survey concerning opinions based on one's experiences; these are my experiences. And those are your opinions and experiences.
Last edited by HomeIsWhere...; 09-15-2012 at 07:00 PM..
I prefaced it with "no offense." Meaning, I know they're there, but when I went around Melrose Park IL or "The Hill" looking for a meal, I was expecting to be socked in with the feeling of being in an Italian neighborhood. I was sort of looking for that. Very few East Coast cities are hanging on to this - maybe South Philly. When you're in St. Clair West (Toronto) or San Leonard (Montreal), you KNOW you are in an Italian neighborhood. That's all. Peace.
Then why did you quote me? Never said the Midwest has Italian neighborhoods like that. You quoted me, then start off by saying "no, offense....". Take your med's today?
That's fine that you think that but don't bring me into a discussion that I have nothing to with.
There about 600,000 Italians in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA).
Infact, in one of the larger suburbs, Woodbridge (population 110,000) , italians dominate.
Montreal too has a surprisingly large Italian community, about 300,000
Mostly in St. Leonard area. They are usually trilingual, speaking italian, english, and french
Italians have had a big influence on Toronto, they literally "built" the city.
Big in the construction industry. Starting in the trades, now are the "builders",
multimillionaires, like Danny Salvatore of Fernbrook Homes.
They build good solid homes with italian flair,
I know, I live in one
Then why did you quote me? Never said the Midwest has Italian neighborhoods like that. You quoted me, then start off by saying "no, offense....". Take your med's today?
That's fine that you think that but don't bring me into a discussion that I have nothing to with.
That's unnecessary (the bold part). I was commenting on your observation about Chicago, which I found to be correct.
There about 600,000 Italians in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA).
Infact, in one of the larger suburbs, Woodbridge (population 110,000) , italians dominate.
Montreal too has a surprisingly large Italian community, about 300,000 Mostly in St. Leonard area. They are usually trilingual, speaking italian, english, and french
Italians have had a big influence on Toronto, they literally "built" the city.
Big in the construction industry. Starting in the trades, now are the "builders",
multimillionaires, like Danny Salvatore of Fernbrook Homes.
They build good solid homes with italian flair,
I know, I live in one
1) Agreed on Toronto
2) Woodbridge -where the assimilated or more monied Italians from College St. or St. Clair West ended up.
3) I would take Montreal over Toronto because of this. I think the French-Italian chemistry in the city is good.
4) Eh, once those Italians start putting too many archways into a house, if this is what you mean by Italian flair, it doesn't look right in Canada. In CA and FL, that's fine.
If you're talking St. Laurent up to and about Jean Talon, that traditional Little Italy's face is changing quickly. It has much more of an African (North and East) flavor these days. Also, some yuppies live in new condos in the area. A couple of the mainstay restaurants and stores are still there, though.
The more Italian neighborhood is still on Jean Talon, but further east near Lacordaire. That area is known as St. Leonard. If you drive the side streets, there are a bunch of duplexes where the paraphernalia indicates they are Italian, in addition to the Italians hanging out outside and looking at you nosily as you slowly drive through, like the typical Italian would.
the nationality of the original founding father country is often not included when listing the most common ancestry of a countrys population , hence why germany instead of england comes out on top in the usa and italy comes out on top in argentina , spain is way out ahead in reality
The same in the US, I'd say 65% of white americans are predominantly either of British or Irish ancestry, Back in 1790 nearly 85% of the european descended pop was either british Isles or Ireland, and later there came many immigrants from many places, but mainly UK, Germany and Italy.
You just have to take a walk at streets of London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and notice how many people walking down the streets could be just random white americans. When I was in germany I noticed quite a lot of different phenotypes than I've seen in the US, the people is usually taller, with bigger builds, more blond hair, and the facial features are definitely alien from the american perspective, I think the average white american groups fits way easier among a random group of Brits/Irish than Among Germans.
Remember those studies are about self-identification, and self-identification often shows what people desire to be rather than what the reality is, many people only know traces of ancestry from 2 generations back but nothing more, there isnt that ancient tracking of ancestry in America, hence they prefer to claim the more recent ancestries, even if in fact they could easily be 3/4 british isles ancestry they often will claim polish, scandinavian, german, italian or anything non-british. Also many people of majority british Isles/Irish old colonial stock reported themselves as just plain "american" Ancestry, because they know their predominant ancestry which most of the times is British Isles old stock.
The case of Argentina is different, most people around the capital , Buenos aires, rosario, cordoba, Misiones, etc are mostly from italian and other recent european ancestry.But most of the people of the periphery regions like the north, north east and south are predominantly of colonial spanish blood (hence more chances of being mixed blooded/mestizo) Thats why your typical gaucho from inland provinces outside Buenos Aires and surroundings has more often spanish lastnames than Italian ones, because It means they are usually descended from the colonial spanish stock (who had more time to mix with the natives of argentina). On the other hand cities around Buenos aires and central/western argentina (Rio de la plata region) are the people who uses to claim to descend straight up from the ships, and yes they in majority have non-spanish sounding surnames, specially italian, but also quite a few ukranian, german and welsh ones in some places like misiones and surrounding areas of Buenos Aires.
I think Argentinean descended italians are way more european and Italian culturally wise than American/Canadians with italian ancestry, because America/Canada have both a self absorbing anglospheric/western/new worlder culture, on the other hand a country like Argentina does nothing but desperately try to retain and resemble more the european culture, because argentineans usually don't embrace Americanism and they prefer to look towards Europe all the time. Argentina might be like a 70s version of Italian/spanish culture (genetically a mix of both but culturally more on the italian side definitely). Thats why the average argentinean ends up not going too far from the scope when It comes to meeting and assimilating the real italian culture. The case of Americans is different, they are typical yanks with an Italian lastname who watch beisbol, eat at mcdonals, talk americanized,like big cars, etc.
Last edited by Don_Caballero; 09-15-2012 at 08:49 PM..
I think Argentinean descended italians are way more european and Italian culturally wise than American/Canadians with italian ancestry, because America/Canada have both a self absorbing anglospheric/western/new worlder culture, on the other hand a country like Argentina does nothing but desperately try to retain and resemble more the european culture, because argentineans usually don't embrace Americanism and they prefer to look towards Europe all the time. Argentina might be like a 70s version of Italian/spanish culture (genetically a mix of both but culturally more on the italian side definitely). Thats why the average argentinean ends up not going too far from the scope when It comes to meeting and assimilating the real italian culture. The case of Americans is different, they are typical yanks with an Italian lastname who watch beisbol, eat at mcdonals, talk americanized,like big cars, etc.
The whole post was good, but especially the last paragraph. I'm still going with Toronto because the family ties are newer, but the culture in Argentina is truly a balance between Spanish and Italian sensibilities, with some things tilting Spanish and some things tilting Italian (they kiss their friends on the cheek upon seeing them in B.A.). One funny thing, though, in which Buenos Aires is neither Spanish nor Italian - they brand themselves "the Paris of South America."
BTW, from what I could see of Uruguay, it seemed very much the same, with less of a fixation upon Europe and more of an emphasis on their own identity, while remembering what their roots are.
Fascinating places.
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With all due respect...
