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Old 12-31-2012, 04:38 PM
 
33,285 posts, read 39,522,511 times
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How you view the United States?


Big beautiful country with much geographical diversity, great place to visit..
Hard to give a view on the people without stereotyping,lets say a very diverse group that for the most part are warm and friendly..
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:43 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,810 posts, read 18,451,761 times
Reputation: 11347
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
True. Can Americans explain why they insist on sucking so badly at relationships in general - and by that I don't just mean romantic "him and her" type of relationships. I mean relationships with fellow humans in general.

...Relationship with what they call "friends" (which are in fact just acquaintances you show your accomplishments to once in a while); with what they call family, which are in fact just relatives most couldn't be bothered to help and with whom they barely keep in touch; with what they call "neighbors" who are just people you throw a reserved "How are you?" at, which translates into "please keep your distance"!; with what they call "colleagues", which are just people you back stab and "do better than" so you can get ahead of them; ... even with what they call spouses, who are largely "business partners" who just "don't work out anymore" when they no longer meet some very clearly defined personal need, granted Americans rarely, if ever, develop sentimental, nostalgic, purely affectionate type of attachments; with what they call "siblings" who are just people you put up with at family reunions and who, ideally, would NOT have been born as this would have meant more dough left for you from the parents; with what they call children, whom they see as individuals they are very much responsible for until the "18 yo" deadline, after which they are expected to just sink or swim, regardless of whether they are able to swim; again, no sentimental attachments here.

Do not scream "generalizations" .
Yes, I heard that 1 millions times, not ALL Americans are "like that"... though I would go so far to argue that the cultures taints ALL to some degree with this type of "relationship" ideology which tends to prevail in the culture.

So why, of why, do you guys suck so badly when it comes to relationships?

In such a world...what kind of value does "making money" really have?

It never added up for me.
I think your points are a little excessive, but still broadly true. It's an unfortunate effect of so much economic freedom and opportunity in America that personal relationships suffer. Why form close personal bonds with people when money gives you everything and you don't need anybody for any practical reason? This what happens to a society in which there is mass affluence and people come from virtually every corner of the world.

This is the great American dilemma and it's a kind of tragic comedy. Except that it's not really funny if you're living it. Americans have become victims of their own success, and relationships are an area in which we have much to learn from other countries and cultures.

Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 12-31-2012 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Vladivostok, Russia
122 posts, read 141,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
It's an unfortunate effect of so much economic freedom and opportunity in America that personal relationships suffer.
For the last 2 decades Russia's having a lot (really a lot - for good, and for worse) more freedom and opportunities, but very strong (even world famous, to some extent) friendship and family ties are still here.

Quote:
This what happens to a society in which there is mass affluence and people come from virtually every corner of the world.
A dozen centuries ago gazillions of Russian tribes were not exactly the same. They even didn't mind fighting each other occasionally. And this remains to this day, though without any bloodshed - e.g. people in Moscow and St. Petersburg verbally fighting. Also, quite a few foreigners joined Russia over the centuries.

US and Russia are very different, but at least not to the extent, to which US and some EU country are different.

There must be more to this American phenomenon.

To make things worse - Russians are extremely individualistic. Much more so than Americans. So individualism can't explain this.

Why scientists are not interested in seriously studiying this thing? Or maybe they did?
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:50 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,621 posts, read 12,891,835 times
Reputation: 11171
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
True. Can Americans explain why they insist on sucking so badly at relationships in general - and by that I don't just mean romantic "him and her" type of relationships. I mean relationships with fellow humans in general.

...Relationship with what they call "friends" (which are in fact just acquaintances you show your accomplishments to once in a while); with what they call family, which are in fact just relatives most couldn't be bothered to help and with whom they barely keep in touch; with what they call "neighbors" who are just people you throw a reserved "How are you?" at, which translates into "please keep your distance"!; with what they call "colleagues", which are just people you back stab and "do better than" so you can get ahead of them; ... even with what they call spouses, who are largely "business partners" who just "don't work out anymore" when they no longer meet some very clearly defined personal need, granted Americans rarely, if ever, develop sentimental, nostalgic, purely affectionate type of attachments; with what they call "siblings" who are just people you put up with at family reunions and who, ideally, would NOT have been born as this would have meant more dough left for you from the parents; with what they call children, whom they see as individuals they are very much responsible for until the "18 yo" deadline, after which they are expected to just sink or swim, regardless of whether they are able to swim; again, no sentimental attachments here.

Do not scream "generalizations" .
Yes, I heard that 1 millions times, not ALL Americans are "like that"... though I would go so far to argue that the cultures taints ALL to some degree with this type of "relationship" ideology which tends to prevail in the culture.

So why, of why, do you guys suck so badly when it comes to relationships?

In such a world...what kind of value does "making money" really have?

It never added up for me.
Well, you are indeed a professional cynic.

Thank you for that scathing rant that was at turns totally bogus, and at others such a gross extrapolation of social pitfalls that it crosses the line into the "fallacy" pen. I have no idea where you live or who you've surrounded yourself with, but man, do I ever feel bad for you

I certainly agree that throughout much of the US, especially in major metros, the simple act of working and the expectations that go along with it are counter-productive to raising a family and having the major downtime to forge deep, profound relationships with a large number of people. I've often pondered the irony of how cities that were made by humans, that become the home of millions upon millions of humans, end up being unconducive to humanity, and humans merely become functionaries of that city's existence - if the people in question do not plan or understand how to live their lives in them. These are things that must change in American society.

However, the assertation that Americans have a taxonomic inability to love, or feel affection, or even just care about other people unless there's something in it for them is just plain wrong.

Last edited by 415_s2k; 01-01-2013 at 03:04 AM..
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:06 AM
 
6,811 posts, read 7,580,635 times
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the good = irrepressible optimism , can do attitude which is infectious , big ideas people

the not so good = a near religous worship of money and people who have money , being poor in america is equated to being in league with satan while rich people are seen as being virteous and good
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,523 posts, read 7,833,048 times
Reputation: 7351
I don't know what's happened to me the last several months but at this point I'm convinced the United States is an unfathomable bore.

Every single time I see a region, continent, state, country, province, division mentioned it makes me yawn out of boredom.

I see the world as a collection of cities & conurbations. That's where the fascination lies for me, New York for example represents the prowess & greatness of it's stature- a city of dreams & ambitions. The United States represents FAR more than that and frankly I'm bored with that thought.

As Americans are we obligated to like somewhere like Baltimore more than London just because one is in our country while the other is across the ocean? I'll take London in a heartbeat.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,621 posts, read 12,891,835 times
Reputation: 11171
Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
I don't know what's happened to me the last several months but at this point I'm convinced the United States is an unfathomable bore.

Every single time I see a region, continent, state, country, province, division mentioned it makes me yawn out of boredom.

I see the world as a collection of cities & conurbations. That's where the fascination lies for me, New York for example represents the prowess & greatness of it's stature- a city of dreams & ambitions. The United States represents FAR more than that and frankly I'm bored with that thought.

As Americans are we obligated to like somewhere like Baltimore more than London just because one is in our country while the other is across the ocean? I'll take London in a heartbeat.
I'd take London over Baltimore in a heartbeat, too.

... who wouldn't?
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,523 posts, read 7,833,048 times
Reputation: 7351
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I'd take London over Baltimore in a heartbeat, too.

... who wouldn't?
You haven't met the "Jesus, we invented America" crowd yet with the Baltimore & Philadelphia boosters? Hey, it's their world- we're just living in it.

To be fair though, Baltimore is not such a bad place. I think of Baltimore as the DMV areas version of Philadelphia except on the bay, half the size, & with Crabcakes instead of Philly Cheesesteaks (I don't eat meat sandwiches so it's utterly useless for me). It's also really close and offers everything from it's big brother city to the north in an albeit smaller package, so it makes trips shorter I suppose.

I'm largely on my way to becoming a vegetarian.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:11 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,810 posts, read 18,451,761 times
Reputation: 11347
Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
You haven't met the "Jesus, we invented America" crowd yet with the Baltimore & Philadelphia boosters? Hey, it's their world- we're just living in it.

To be fair though, Baltimore is not such a bad place. I think of Baltimore as the DMV areas version of Philadelphia except on the bay, half the size, & with Crabcakes instead of Philly Cheesesteaks (I don't eat meat sandwiches so it's utterly useless for me). It's also really close and offers everything from it's big brother city to the north in an albeit smaller package, so it makes trips shorter I suppose.

I'm largely on my way to becoming a vegetarian.
Baltimore is only a 30 minute drive from where I live. Even though Baltimore is a nice city and has its charms, I have a mind to slap anyone who would say it's better than London. The only U.S. city which can be considered better than London is New York (and Los Angeles if you're stoned). But that's a close competition.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,621 posts, read 12,891,835 times
Reputation: 11171
Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
You haven't met the "Jesus, we invented America" crowd yet with the Baltimore & Philadelphia boosters? Hey, it's their world- we're just living in it.
Oh, christ on a stick, yes indeed I have encountered the Philly-boosting crowd To hear them talk, Philly occupies a space between NYC and London in terms of amenities, prominence, influence, culture, and desirability, edging out such lightweights as Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong, LA, Berlin, Melbourne, Sydney, San Francisco, et al.

Quote:
To be fair though, Baltimore is not such a bad place. I think of Baltimore as the DMV areas version of Philadelphia except on the bay, half the size, & with Crabcakes instead of Philly Cheesesteaks (I don't eat meat sandwiches so it's utterly useless for me). It's also really close and offers everything from it's big brother city to the north in an albeit smaller package, so it makes trips shorter I suppose.
The whole BosWash corridor is definitely awesome in that sense - ease of travel between major and influential cities that, while certainly similar in some senses, also retain distinct characters and offer plenty to do and see. When I lived in Boston and NYC, I never got to Baltimore or Philly; I'd like to, at some point, and have a good number of friends from my youth in Boston who are now in Philly - most of them were in NYC but had a family... or, their art career never lifted off the ground.

Quote:
I'm largely on my way to becoming a vegetarian.
I've been one for thirteen years. It's worked well for me! And it also means that when people are like, "Philly is #1 because of the cheesesteaks/New Orleans is #1 because of the gumbo/etc," I just shrug and insist that LA and SF rule
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