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Old 10-17-2007, 04:51 AM
 
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Can someone please explain to me why is it that in countries such as India, China, and religions like the muslims have a total disrespect for women giving them little or no rights above or equal to men?
I'm not being rude but it is a common practice in many countries and I would really like to know why is it that women will be given such a low standard in life?
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Old 10-17-2007, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,032 posts, read 24,550,400 times
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Women have always been throughout history the "underdog", even in the West. Until the industrialisation of Western countries women were also considered second citizens, given little respect or due notice. Men were allowed by law to rape their wives and women were treated as chattels and property not human beings. Christians used to believe that women like animals had no souls.

I think it would be wise to remember that we are still young ourselves regarding giving women a fairer representation in society.

Women have only had the vote in most Western countries for a hundred years at best so it is not just an issue of religion but one of societal and economic changes. We only started being treated as equal members of society after WW1 when the wiping out of an entire generation of males meant more reliance on women for industrial participation. Women in the West have had to fight tooth and nail for their rights and parity of pay is still not resolved. The third and developing world may be lagging behind but our achievements are recent and were hard earned. Wealthier and more stable countries tend to find more time for issues such as human and women's rights which is why I believe it is our duty to ensure that we try to encourage democratic practices and political stability not only on domestic territory but also abroad. It is a question of our shared humanity and as such I feel it is best for all of us if we ALL get a chance to evolve.

I agree that Islam nowadays is not a beacon of feminism, but I attribute this more to the way it has been interpreted than to the Qur'an .

For example the prophet Mohammed was actually an employee of his first wife and many women in Islam used to be powerful lawyers and other professions in early Islamic society.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:40 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,215,404 times
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I agree with the above poster. I also think it's roots run deeper than just the sociological level. Sad to say I think it's based at a genetic level. The fact is, women are physically smaller, weaker, and less agressive than men - and dispite all our veneer of civilization, we are still animals at the core and unfortunately there is a tendency for larger, more powerful animals to dominate smaller weaker ones - and this is just as true among human beings as among the "lesser creatures". I'm not pointing this out to excuse the behavior, just to explain why it is so very widespread and to point out just how much effort we must put into changing this behavior. Throughout history (with a very few exceptions) men have always suppressed women to a certain degree - and there will always be a tendency to do so. As a "civilized" people we decry such things, but even in our enlightened society, spousal abuse (almost always against the woman) still takes place all to frequently and women still have to work harder to acheive the same level of respect and compensation as men in the workplace.

I'm a firm believer in the theory that many of the behaviors humans exhibit are in fact lingering animal behaviors built in to our DNA and that we are FAR closer to these animals than we realize. These include typically human behaviors such as picking on nerds - chickens and other animals exhibit the behavior of picking out the smallest, weakest among them and bullying them - hence the phrase "pecking order". I see this as what was originally a genetic "weeding out" of the weakest members of a species so that over the long run the species grows stronger. It obviously has no place in modern society, but the animal instinct remains none-the-less. Certainly women tend to be more attracted to stronger, more physically fit males than to nerdy type guys - why is that? It's because genetically, that's the way women are programmed. Likewise men too are more attracted to physically fit women than those who are not. Again, genetics at work. We can't help who we are attracted to, it's in our genes. Certainly society can direct it a little bit, but the basic path of our attraction is laid out for us in out DNA.

Likewise birds have their mating dances and humans have their mating rituals as well. Consider the following:

"A young teenaged girl steps up into a crowded bus and takes a seat. Almost immediately she catches sight of a handsome young man across the aisle who is admiring her. She blushes and turns away, but then secretly (at least so she thinks) glances at him through the corner of her eye. The young man, embarrased to be caught observing her, blushes and turns away as well, but then he too secretly peeks at her through the corner of his eye."

What country was this? What culture? You can't tell because the behaviors were universal. They didn't conciously decide to blush or even to turn away and watch the other through the corner of their eye, it was instinctual - it was a universal human animal behavior based at the genetic level.

The tendency for stronger, more powerful males to want to dominate smaller, weaker females is genetic (not cultural) tendency as well. Again, note that I'm not using genetics as an excuse for the behavior, merely pointing out that this is not a behavior that you can stamp out and it will then be gone forever. It is a tendency that will ALWAYS be lurking just beneath the surface - ready to return the moment societal injunctions against it are relaxed.

In truth I don't find it surprising that so many foreign cultures still oppress women - I find it surprising (and much to our credit as a culture) that we make such an effort (not always successful admittedly) not to.

For what it's worth, that's my take.

Ken
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:38 AM
 
13,608 posts, read 20,659,738 times
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Ironically, Pakistan and Indonesia, Islamic countries both, have or have had women Prime Ministers.

India had a women Prime Minister back in the 1970s.
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:32 AM
 
6,764 posts, read 22,007,939 times
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Women used to be respected in ancient civilizations--probably in places where now they are shut behind curtains and hidden under cloths to 'protect them.'
Many people used to worship fertility goddesses.
Maybe it was the rise of certain religions that made women 'less important' in the eyes of the world (maybe it was science?).
Women also have mystery because they can only give birth. Men may 'resent' this and make the woman 'less in his mind.' All these birth/menstrual taboos probably arose based on men's envy (and fear) of the female as the 'giver of life.'
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Old 10-17-2007, 12:35 PM
 
Location: The 719
17,875 posts, read 27,269,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsySoul22 View Post
Women used to be respected in ancient civilizations--probably in places where now they are shut behind curtains and hidden under cloths to 'protect them.'
Many people used to worship fertility goddesses.
Maybe it was the rise of certain religions that made women 'less important' in the eyes of the world (maybe it was science?).
Women also have mystery because they can only give birth. Men may 'resent' this and make the woman 'less in his mind.' All these birth/menstrual taboos probably arose based on men's envy (and fear) of the female as the 'giver of life.'
I think you're onto something. Except I would have worded it; " Women also have mystery because ONLY they can give birth or They Deserve SOME CREDIT on continuing our species..." Where would MAN be without women?

I think it's about Power and Control that drives this FEAR.

Putting religion aside, what would GOD say about the human experience versus what MAN says GOD says about human experience?

The Western World has come a long way in Womans' purpose, but you tend to wonder when you watch late night tv and beer commercials!
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:56 AM
 
1 posts, read 7,364 times
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"some men don't get rights too."
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:50 PM
 
13,499 posts, read 18,084,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadel812 View Post
Can someone please explain to me why is it that in countries such as India, China, and religions like the muslims have a total disrespect for women giving them little or no rights above or equal to men?
I'm not being rude but it is a common practice in many countries and I would really like to know why is it that women will be given such a low standard in life?
Since the few and recent exceptions to this are industrialized Western nations, it probably makes more sense to try to examine what has happened in these societies that changed the subservient status of women in them.

Some of the things that come to my mind are the decreasing power of religion and the rise of secularism, the breakdown of the extended family and its replacement by the nuclear family, the movement of men from the immediate home environment (the family farm) to workplaces outside the home.

There are still today sects of Christians and Jews in the U.S. where women have none of the rights that are taken for granted by the mainstream society, so we are not entirely removed from the type of "disrespect" pointed to by the OP.
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:21 PM
 
165 posts, read 527,364 times
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Turkey by the way, also had a woman Prime Minister.

I say, more power to the "Grameen Banks" who are making small loans to village women all over the world, to start cottage industries, crafts, and small businesses. It's no wonder that the Grameen Banks' founder, Mohammad Younus or Bangladesh, won the Nobel Peace Prize several years ago. Watch the Reality TV series "Penny Revolution" on the new "HALOGEN" cable TV channel, if you have it.

It's been proven in many developing countries and cultures, that when Wives have control over their family's money, they spend it wisely to better their families - but when Husbands have control over the money, they will squander most of it on alcohol, tobacco, and prostitutes.

An excellent new best-selling book on the treatment of girls and women in developing countries, is "HALF THE SKY" (written by the globe-trotting activist/ N.Y. Times columnist, Nicholas Kristof and his Chinese-born wife). Very eye-opening - both shocking and encouraging at the same time. Look for it in your library, or on Amazon.com.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,618 posts, read 86,577,260 times
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In most Islamic countries, there are now more girls then boys enrolled in secondary schools and colleges and universities. Part of the reason for that is by default, since boys more often need to leave school in order to work to support the family. And, girls who graduate often do not have good employment prospects.

Nevertheless, the intellectual development in much of the third world is concentrated more and more in the women, and some day, probably very soon, the women of those countries will see themselves enjoying a great deal more social and economic power.

Even in Saudi Arabia now, it is 46% female in secondary school, and in Libya, 50%.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ed...econdary-level
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