best leaders ever in the world (bill, health, rated)

[njkate]

Anwar Sadat
Golda Meir

[southerntraveler14]

kinda contradicting arent they? lol but okies thats yer picks its kool...any particular reason for them?

[njkate]

Sadat: camp David Peace Agreement

Golda: A female who did not back down

I know they are opposites

[LordBalfor]

Southerntraveler: Fair enough - I'll go ahead and post my choices then

Here's my (admittedly Euro-centric) list

Alexander the Great - A brilliant military tactician coupled with an enlightened educated mind, many of his victories over the Persians were practically bloodless, as city after city freely opened their gates to him and willingly joined his growing empire.

Augustus - Forged the Roman Empire and ushered in a longgggg period of peace and prosperity, what more can I say?

Elizabeth I - Led England into it's period of ascent to a world power and it's golden age. Englands' finest monarch ever.

Napoleon - Pulled France from chaos to mastery of all of Europe. he certainly made his share of mistakes, but there is no denying his accomplishments. Though often compare to Hitler (who managed similar accomplishments) there is a world of difference here since Hitler was obsessed with the whole racial purity BS and tried specifically to exterminate whole races of people. Napolean was no angel, but rather a typical ruler of his day (Kings and Queens).

George Washington - Though I list him, in truth he was just one of the VERY capable and enlightened founding fathers that included Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin etc. The birth of this country was not the result of one man's efforts but rather the collective labor of several such men. The US was indeed fortunate to have such a great collection of wise and forward-thinking folks at such a critical time in it's history. One need only look across the Atlantic at France to see how things COULD have gone

Abraham Lincoln - Successfully steered America through it's darkest hour and in the process freed millions from the bondage of slavery

FDR - Pulled America from the Great Depression (as did Hitler, but did so witout having to violate the rights and property of it's citizens), then led the Allies to eventual victory over the evils of the Axis powers. Though many revisionists now claim that the US was recoverying anyway even without the New Deal (recovery would indeed have come, but much slower - probably very little would have happened until WW II broke out) one fact those folks always fail to mention is the fact that without the Federal projects of the New Deal the outcome of WW II might have been very different. For example, it was the power generated by Hoover Dam that made possible the huge collection of war factories of the LA area (think of all the bombers produced at Douglas Aircraft, for example) while the Grand Coulee Dam of Washington State made possible the giant Boeing factory in Seattle that cranked out B-17s etc. None of that would have happened without the FDR's New Deal. I think the Japanese-American internment was shameful, but other than that blight, FDR leadership was superb as he led America from being a country with powerful potential into the leader of of the Free World.

I'm sure a few others will come to mind that deserve to be on the list but those are the first ones that hit me.

Ken

[strawberryfield]

I completely agree Hitler was a great leader. No one said he was a great human being, but as a leader? Of course. The horrendous, unbelieveable things he could get people to do....only a great leader would be able to orchestrate and get the citizens of its own country to turn on millions of people like that.

He was a dispicable human being, but a great leader.

He was also faithful to his wife, didn't drink or smoke.. Maybe those shouldn't be used in the criteria for President, eh? I'd rather have a cheating President who isn't capable of even conceiving what he did.

[southerntraveler14]

very nice list thank you.
i agree with washington he was the father of this nation.

[5.0 Mustang]

southerntraveler14, you can't post on a public board and not expect to get someone else's opinion. Especially when what you say in controversial.

I really like Winston Churchill, to name someone not yet mentioned. Great conservative.

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by strawberryfield

I completely agree Hitler was a great leader. No one said he was a great human being, but as a leader? Of course. The horrendous, unbelieveable things he could get people to do....only a great leader would be able to orchestrate and get the citizens of its own country to turn on millions of people like that.

He was a dispicable human being, but a great leader.

He was also faithful to his wife, didn't drink or smoke.. Maybe those shouldn't be used in the criteria for President, eh? I'd rather have a cheating President who isn't capable of even conceiving what he did.

Though I agree Hitlers' accomplishments were many and that many folks would put him on such a list - there are 2 reasons I decided not to (after admittedly, much debate):

1) His obviously inhumanity. He was the leader of ALL of Germany, not just of the non-Jews. No great leader would ever turn on so many of his own citizens - folks who wanted nothing more than to be faithful to their country - with the intent of totally exterminating them. The Jewish population of Germany had done much to build Europe throughout the centuries and it was not only cruel and evil to turn on them, but also STUPID. Much of the talent and brainpower he forced from Germany went elsewhere - such as the US, where Jews such as Einstein did much to contribute to the war effort against the Axis (remember a little thing called the A-bomb). While I certainly fault FDR for his treatment of the Japanese Americans, this was nothing compared to what Hitler did to the Jews.

2) Though there is no denying Hitler's magnificient oratory skills and his many successes on the battlefield and in the diplomatic area, he also made a LARGE number of errors. Here's a list of a few of his MAJOR mistakes:

A) His miscalculation in thinking that he could gamble one more time and invade Poland without bringing about general war

B) His stupidly in leaving Britain intact and invading the USSR instead, to his foolish preoccupation with racial purity that made possible allies (such as the Ukrainians) into deadly enemies when they might have aided him against the tyranny of Stalin

C) His insane fixation on Stalingrad and insistance on micro-managing the war

D) His stupid decision to actively declare war on the US (contrary to popular belief, FDR did NOT ask congress to declare war on Germany in his famous Day of Imfamy speech - only on Japan)

E) The sacking and intimidation of many of his best commanders when they dared to contradict him.

The list goes on and on. The fact is, he was indeed a brilliant politcal manipulator but only a so-so military thinker. He had many flashes of brilliance, but his meglomania all too often outweighed his common sense got him into deep trouble because of incredibly stupid decisions that he'd sometimes make. Had he not had such a cadre of brillaint military subordinates (Rommel, Guderian, etc), he would likely have been defeated in very short order.

The truth is much of the credit for Germany's rise does indeed lay with him, but so does virtually ALL of the blame for their defeat. In his sad and lonely last days, he railed against the German people for failing him, when in fact, it was HE who had failed the German people. He was great and brilliant in many ways, but in the final analysis he was a sad little man whose reign was thankfully very brief.

Ken

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by 5.0 Mustang

southerntraveler14, you can't post on a public board and not expect to get someone else's opinion. Especially when what you say in controversial.

I really like Winston Churchill, to name someone not yet mentioned. Great conservative.

Churchill was certainly magnificient during the war, and I for one think that England owes it's survival in the war to him. He was also much wiser than FDR in understanding the danger that Stalin posed.

I did consider including him and still think he could well belong on the list. The only reason I eventually decided against him is the fact that, well let's face it, Brtain's victory in WWII was at best a Pyrrhic one. The war bankrupted Britain and eventually led to the collapse of the British Empire. Though I don't claim that was Churchill's fault, I eventually decided against putting him on such a distinquished list (perhaps unfairly, I do admit).

Ken

[southerntraveler14]

Didnt say i did not want anyone elses opinion but this thread is for the rest of the ppl to put down who they think was the best leaders ever in there mind. i know hitler is a controversial figure in history some hate him some love him some dont care. but i do not want this thread to turn into a free for all against hitler and my picks. i want ppl to express there opinion on who they think are and were the best leaders ever in there opinion.

Originally Posted by 5.0 Mustang

southerntraveler14, you can't post on a public board and not expect to get someone else's opinion. Especially when what you say in controversial.

I really like Winston Churchill, to name someone not yet mentioned. Great conservative.