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View Poll Results: Your choice?
Beijing 2 3.77%
Los Angeles 24 45.28%
Osaka 12 22.64%
Rhine-Ruhr 10 18.87%
Combined option for "none", "confused at the moment", "I don't really know where to begin", "huh" 5 9.43%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-13-2013, 02:20 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
Weather = Shanghai IMO.
Whats the weather like?

i always see pictures and videos of various east asian cities and it seems like its a very foggy region.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:48 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Whats the weather like?

i always see pictures and videos of various east asian cities and it seems like its a very foggy region.
Super hot and humid in the summer pretty much like the worst of the gulf coast, but the good thing is the central city areas have a lot of underground pedestrian malls that are air-conditioned. The winter gets pretty cold with a handful of below zero days, but it's really how damp the air gets and how cold the wind is that makes the winter worse than what one might expect from the latitude. Fall in Shanghai is glorious however and Spring is pretty good, too.

East Asian cities run a huge gamut and go pretty far into the interior of the continent, so it's sort of odd to say it's an overall foggy region. I guess there are a lot of coastal or near coastal cities, but that's true of a lot of countries (such as the US). It might be more of a media thing about shrouding the East in mystery or something?
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: London, United Kingdom
6,114 posts, read 6,633,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I disagree with your use of media. It is generally used much more inclusively than you have there and includes entertainment as delivered through media. I don't argue that LA has a prominent place in terms of journalism (though in advertising, another component of media, LA produces a lot of non-print advertising).
I think we're seeing it differently not because we don't agree but because we each have different perceptions for media. For a division of it's magnitude and with as many broad branches as it does have, that pretty much goes without saying.

I feel a lot of these things overlap. For example, something like Youtube I would consider more apart of technology albeit it functions more for entertainment & media.

I suppose they're all just branches of the same tree: film, television, commercials, Internet mediums (like Youtube), current events, publishing, broadcasting, animation, digital enhancement, journalism. They all come down to either entertainment or an update in current events.

I would say personally Los Angeles excels at entertainment and in general getting television shows off the ground as well as the mechanics behind it: camera work, frequencies, tests & simulations, digital graphics, animation, production, and screening as well as of course the actual work itself (films or television shows).

Where Los Angeles is particularly weak and especially for it's size is current events. I'm familiar with LA Times but it's no where as precise as Washington Post or the New York Times-- both of which in my personal opinion are ingrained into both the national current events and global affairs. They're very modern about it to, the moment something happens-- they're updated with the most reliable stories. Broadcasting, journalism, and publishing are other segments that are generally weaker in Los Angeles-- not saying they don't exist but the presence is much stronger in Washington, New York, or Atlanta on these.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Washington does well in a lot of other categories, but it's certainly not the top in most of those categories for the US though it does fairly well in several. Beijing, for China, is actually at the top for many industries pretty much without dispute.
I agree that Beijing is just on another level, it's 4X the size of Washington and unlike Washington it has a higher pecking order in it's country. A lot more power derived from lack of formidable competition, in the United States there's soundly 5 global cities that are competitive with one another: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington, & San Francisco. Strong key players out of Boston, Houston, Dallas, & Miami as well albeit they're more of a safeguard at the national level with a decent depth at international but quite behind the other five-- Boston not so much from San Francisco though in my personal opinion.

I view both Washington & Boston as well rounded cities, they have respectable showing in prominent industries and are leaders in innovation: clean technology, infrastructure, venture capital, startups, life sciences but you're right they're not industry leaders (well government, that's a given though).
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
A plurality or outright majority of leading intellectuals, including those who are not particularly disposed towards the government, are based in Beijing.
I'd imagine it to be so. A place of nearly 20 million people and the capital of the worlds largest country and now the second largest economy definitely should have a strong caliber of ammunition to it's disposal.

The most prominent being the ability to attract intellectuals and talent. I never doubted as much out of Beijing but wouldn't Shanghai as an equally large draw-- as well as an emerging metropolis also have draws like these as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Basically, any of the other cities/metros are obviously not top dog overall for their respective countries. For Beijing, it's definitely arguable that Beijing tops over Shanghai.
How would you number these four in terms of importance (to the entire world) and production capability?

I know (and would speak for myself in saying) that Rhine-Ruhr would be the 4th (last) among these on all counts. Still seems like a nice place to live albeit not such a stellar reputation for leisure or power. I'm fond of it regardless though.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:55 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,615 posts, read 15,601,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Super hot and humid in the summer pretty much like the worst of the gulf coast, but the good thing is the central city areas have a lot of underground pedestrian malls that are air-conditioned. The winter gets pretty cold with a handful of below zero days, but it's really how damp the air gets and how cold the wind is that makes the winter worse than what one might expect from the latitude. Fall in Shanghai is glorious however and Spring is pretty good, too.
Sounds alot like St. Paul-Minneapolis
Quote:
East Asian cities run a huge gamut and go pretty far into the interior of the continent, so it's sort of odd to say it's an overall foggy region. I guess there are a lot of coastal or near coastal cities, but that's true of a lot of countries (such as the US). It might be more of a media thing about shrouding the East in mystery or something?
Damn media brainwashed me...
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:02 PM
 
Location: In the heights
16,506 posts, read 18,839,315 times
Reputation: 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Sounds alot like St. Paul-Minneapolis

Damn media brainwashed me...
Differs a lot from minneapolis in not having winters with such low temperatures or with any snow (I can't imagine the Twin Cities never having snow in winter) and the summers in Shanghai are stupid hot. The Twin Cities might get some spikes of heat, but it's not the unrelenting muddled heat day after day that Shanghai gets in summer where you find yourself soaking your clothes in your own sweat by walking a few blocks.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:19 PM
 
Location: In the heights
16,506 posts, read 18,839,315 times
Reputation: 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
I think we're seeing it differently not because we don't agree but because we each have different perceptions for media. For a division of it's magnitude and with as many broad branches as it does have, that pretty much goes without saying.

I feel a lot of these things overlap. For example, something like Youtube I would consider more apart of technology albeit it functions more for entertainment & media.

I suppose they're all just branches of the same tree: film, television, commercials, Internet mediums (like Youtube), current events, publishing, broadcasting, animation, digital enhancement, journalism. They all come down to either entertainment or an update in current events.

I would say personally Los Angeles excels at entertainment and in general getting television shows off the ground as well as the mechanics behind it: camera work, frequencies, tests & simulations, digital graphics, animation, production, and screening as well as of course the actual work itself (films or television shows).

Where Los Angeles is particularly weak and especially for it's size is current events. I'm familiar with LA Times but it's no where as precise as Washington Post or the New York Times-- both of which in my personal opinion are ingrained into both the national current events and global affairs. They're very modern about it to, the moment something happens-- they're updated with the most reliable stories. Broadcasting, journalism, and publishing are other segments that are generally weaker in Los Angeles-- not saying they don't exist but the presence is much stronger in Washington, New York, or Atlanta on these.

I agree that Beijing is just on another level, it's 4X the size of Washington and unlike Washington it has a higher pecking order in it's country. A lot more power derived from lack of formidable competition, in the United States there's soundly 5 global cities that are competitive with one another: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington, & San Francisco. Strong key players out of Boston, Houston, Dallas, & Miami as well albeit they're more of a safeguard at the national level with a decent depth at international but quite behind the other five-- Boston not so much from San Francisco though in my personal opinion.

I view both Washington & Boston as well rounded cities, they have respectable showing in prominent industries and are leaders in innovation: clean technology, infrastructure, venture capital, startups, life sciences but you're right they're not industry leaders (well government, that's a given though).

I'd imagine it to be so. A place of nearly 20 million people and the capital of the worlds largest country and now the second largest economy definitely should have a strong caliber of ammunition to it's disposal.

The most prominent being the ability to attract intellectuals and talent. I never doubted as much out of Beijing but wouldn't Shanghai as an equally large draw-- as well as an emerging metropolis also have draws like these as well?

How would you number these four in terms of importance (to the entire world) and production capability?

I know (and would speak for myself in saying) that Rhine-Ruhr would be the 4th (last) among these on all counts. Still seems like a nice place to live albeit not such a stellar reputation for leisure or power. I'm fond of it regardless though.
LA is mostly entertainment and I never said otherwise or that LA is a hard-hitting journalism sort of place. However, entertainment media is such a huge industry for the US both domestically (since entertainment media is almost exclusively domestic in the US) and internationally (since we are the largest media entertainment exporter by a wide margin) that LA does get a nod along with NYC when talking about media in/from the US. The technology component of the whole thing is trickier, I'd personally factor it in and say the process and form leads to the content and so while the media production isn't localized to the Bay Area, the tools themselves and the decision gone into how the tools work are very important and I would, though I know many would argue against this, put the Bay Area up there.

I popped into this topic because it's a discussion of second cities/metros and it didn't seem like Beijing was analogous with the rest of the second cities/metros mentioned on account of how it's not clearly defined as either the first or second city/metro of China (though my opinion is that overall it's definitely Beijing, the arguments for Shanghai are pretty reasonable).

Shanghai for some reason or other does not seem to attract the intellectuals nor is it the seat of "high society" publications despite all the wealth it attracts, nor is its art community particularly vibrant (actually, surprisingly meh). Beijing is far more vibrant in both communities. Shanghai does draw a lot of money and people interested in making money though. The odd thing is that the most progressive, outspoken and liberal publication in China, and one that makes massive waves through academia and high society, is actually based in the third largest city of Guangzhou. It's kind of exciting as **** just really hit the fan with the communist censors recently (only minor turds thrown in the past in comparison).

Not sure what you mean by production capability, but by worldwide overall importance it's Beijing by a large margin, then Los Angeles (much of this due to things outside of just the entertainment industry), then Osaka, and then Rhine-Ruhr. Rhine-Ruhr could be higher, but just hasn't really worked as a unified metropolitan area like the others have. If we were putting Shanghai in here instead of Beijing, I'd put it below Los Angeles for the time being.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:11 PM
 
Location: London, United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
LA is mostly entertainment and I never said otherwise or that LA is a hard-hitting journalism sort of place.
Didn't say you did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
The technology component of the whole thing is trickier, I'd personally factor it in and say the process and form leads to the content and so while the media production isn't localized to the Bay Area, the tools themselves and the decision gone into how the tools work are very important and I would, though I know many would argue against this, put the Bay Area up there.
I've personally made the argument in the past that it's a pretty overlooked place in terms of media. There are quite a few minor production studios based there, the largest being Lucas Films (which I believe now is owned by Disney) that have a good sized command center in the Bay Area.

There's also the technology aspect to it, Youtube for example-- Internet boosted and it's largely becoming a source or entertainment. In the last 7 years they're have been several prominent stars to gain exposure and start their careers via Youtube. KevJumba & Obama girl being two prominent examples that come to mind immediately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Not sure what you mean by production capability, but by worldwide overall importance it's Beijing by a large margin, then Los Angeles (much of this due to things outside of just the entertainment industry), then Osaka, and then Rhine-Ruhr. Rhine-Ruhr could be higher, but just hasn't really worked as a unified metropolitan area like the others have. If we were putting Shanghai in here instead of Beijing, I'd put it below Los Angeles for the time being.
By production capability, I mean what a place is able to produce whether it's a regulation or a material object or a steady source for cash flow.

Shanghai for example has one of the busiest & largest ports in all of the world. Bay Area produces some of the worlds most economically vital companies (and some of the most profitable too), along with startups.

So on as the examples go.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:17 PM
 
Location: In the heights
16,506 posts, read 18,839,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
Didn't say you did.

I've personally made the argument in the past that it's a pretty overlooked place in terms of media. There are quite a few minor production studios based there, the largest being Lucas Films (which I believe now is owned by Disney) that have a good sized command center in the Bay Area.

There's also the technology aspect to it, Youtube for example-- Internet boosted and it's largely becoming a source or entertainment. In the last 7 years they're have been several prominent stars to gain exposure and start their careers via Youtube. KevJumba & Obama girl being two prominent examples that come to mind immediately.

By production capability, I mean what a place is able to produce whether it's a regulation or a material object or a steady source for cash flow.

Shanghai for example has one of the busiest & largest ports in all of the world. Bay Area produces some of the worlds most economically vital companies (and some of the most profitable too), along with startups.

So on as the examples go.
I know, but you went on so long about media and entertainment that I wanted to be explicit.

Pixar is also in the Bay Area. The Bay Area also has things like Wired or Mother Jones which are pretty neat.

Still don't quite understand production capability. You mean government regulation is a part of it? Is it pretty much the same as overall influence in all facets? If so, then the list/rankings pretty much stay the same.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:47 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
886 posts, read 1,210,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Not sure what you mean by production capability, but by worldwide overall importance it's Beijing by a large margin, then Los Angeles (much of this due to things outside of just the entertainment industry), then Osaka, and then Rhine-Ruhr. Rhine-Ruhr could be higher, but just hasn't really worked as a unified metropolitan area like the others have. If we were putting Shanghai in here instead of Beijing, I'd put it below Los Angeles for the time being.
Wait Beijing over LA?
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:58 AM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAXTOR View Post
Wait Beijing over LA?
In overall influence and importance? Oh yea, definitely. It's not analogous to DC where people get voted in from all over. There is no real vote. The major political families are basically all in Beijing. The government holds a much tighter rein over pretty much all facets of China than the US and it is far more centrally located within Beijing itself. LA is not even close to having that kind of influence despite the "soft power" that entertainment media exerts. The two have also had radically different trajectories in the past decade with Beijing and China overall having grown greatly in power and become more much economically powerful while LA has had a few of its relatively little corporate headquarters poached by other cities and has had its film/tv industry stagnate as production centers have risen all over the US at a rapid pace (and other parts of the English-speaking first world countries) and changed LA's share from a vast majority to a much slighter plurality.
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