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View Poll Results: Your choice?
Randstad 9 36.00%
Bay Area 13 52.00%
Combined option for "none", "confused at the moment", "I don't really know where to begin", "huh" 3 12.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-12-2013, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,199,762 times
Reputation: 1077

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
Also, the fact that you think the Randstad is barely connected shows how utterly clueless you are, lol.
Linda, relax. I'm not here to be combatitive with you, I was only under the impression that you were trying to say the SF Bay Area is a POS, nondiverse, cheap s---, worthless place. You're not from Philadelphia, I don't see you as an enemy, relax.

Ironic
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
The Bay Area doesn't even come close to that. It has a population of 7.1 million spread over 18,088 km² (6,984 sq. mi.) of land. That's over twice as much!
http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf

I don't blame you for not understanding the US way of adding areas most folks that live in the US barely understand lol. In the US we have counties with large land areas and the ones in the SF Bay Area are sparsely populated except in a small corner where it's dense sprawl, the rest of the county is all mountains, if we had more flat land area we would develop on it but we don't.

Let me show you All sizes | San Fransciso Bay Area
Quote:
I wasn't even talking about that kind of diversity.
Then be clearer next time.
Quote:
The Bay Area simply does not have this kind of diversity within such a small area so as a visitor, I would prefer to spend my time in the Randstad.
Agreed. Next time say THIS if thats what you meant.
Quote:
Btw, since you asked about diversity: Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague all have a ~50% foreign origin population and the largest immigrant groups come from non-Western countries (Surinam, Morocco, Turkey).
We'll talk when you show the ethnic composition. I want to see them...
Quote:
You really think the Bay Area is denser than the Randstad?
I think the spaces in the SF Bay Area are more filled up between cities than Randstad is what I meant by that. Continuously and densely built up. IE San Jose in southbay to San Francisco on the peninsula is built up land mass along the rim of the bay all the way from one city to the other. Oakland on the otherside of the bay is the same way to San Jose.

Unlike the rest of the US, our area more than any other gets kicked in the balls because we don't have flat land to develop on. The few flat areas we have have been built on and the mountains ruin any chance for us to sprawl but the bright side is this that it also helped build a continuous connection of the built up areas.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XYy470fpCV...from+space.bmp


http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~braile/ed...s/image011.jpg

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA03335.jpg


http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA02606.jpg

It would be nice if you folks could find similar satellite pix of the Randstad area.

Last edited by scrantiX; 01-12-2013 at 09:51 PM..
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:24 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,222,301 times
Reputation: 3401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Fingers View Post
Is the Bay Area really cheaper?

I actually think the two are really hard to compare from the standpoint of choosing between them. I've lived in the Bay Area, and been to Amsterdam more times than I can remember, and I simply cannot pick one over the other.

The weather....yes....nothing beats the Bay Area....except - in my opinion - Sonoma County weather...
I don't know, isn't the US in general cheaper than Western Europe? The Randstad is quite expensive in terms of housing because it's so densely populated.

I do like warm weather but not the whole year, I like having four seasons and snow during the winter (only around Christmas though ). The Netherlands is a bit too cold for me but something like the climate of Central France would be perfect.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,199,762 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
I don't know, isn't the US in general cheaper than Western Europe? The Randstad is quite expensive in terms of housing because it's so densely populated.
SF Bay Area is the most expensive area in the US, Manhattan is the most expensive section of the city in NYC but for the whole area the SF Bay Area and Honolulu are the worst place in the US to move to if you want cheap living IMO.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:33 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,222,301 times
Reputation: 3401
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
Linda, relax. I'm not here to be combatitive with you, I was only under the impression that you were trying to say the SF Bay Area is a POS, nondiverse, cheap s---, worthless place. You're not from Philadelphia, I don't see you as an enemy, relax.
I don't know where you got that impression from because I didn't say anything negative about the Bay Area in my post.

Quote:
Ironic

http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf

I don't blame you for not understanding the US way of adding areas most folks that live in the US barely understand lol. In the US we have counties with large land areas and the ones in the SF Bay Area are sparsely populated except in a small corner where it's dense sprawl, the rest of the county is all mountains, if we had more flat land area we would develop on it but we don't.

Let me show you All sizes | San Fransciso Bay Area
What is your point of posting a 175-page PDF file? Be more specific. The fact is that the Randstad is more than twice as densely populated than the Bay Area, the reason for it is irrelevant.

Quote:
We'll talk when you show the ethnic composition. I want to see them...p
The ethnic composition of Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht are on their Wiki pages. Look it up if you're curious, I can't be bothered.

Quote:
I think the spaces in the SF Bay Area are more filled up between cities than Randstad is what I meant by that. Continuously and densely built up. IE San Jose in southbay to San Francisco on the peninsula is built up land mass along the rim of the bay all the way from one city to the other. Oakland on the otherside of the bay is the same way to San Jose.
Well, you're wrong. How on earth do you think 7.1 million people fit into such a small piece of land if the area is not continuously built up?
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,199,762 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
What is your point of posting a 175-page PDF file? Be more specific. The fact is that the Randstad is more than twice as densely populated than the Bay Area, the reason for it is irrelevant.
You were giving out false info. The SF Bay Area does not take 6K sqmi, read the PDF 1080 sqmi the SF Bay Area continuously urban population is 5,864,000 and Randstad is split between Amsterdam and The Hague/Rotterdam.

It's not built up look at the rural undeveloped land between the northwing and the southwing


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...with_scale.png

SF Bay Area is built up along the rim of the bay, where the developable land sits. Look at the map and look at the vanilla "agricultural land". That is undeveloped land with sparse population.
Quote:
The ethnic composition of Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht are on their Wiki pages. Look it up if you're curious, I can't be bothered.
Post a link
Quote:
Well, you're wrong. How on earth do you think 7.1 million people fit into such a small piece of land if the area is not continuously built up?
Like this, look at that rural undeveloped land in there


SF Bay Area there is no rural land between the 3 cities, it is built up


All pix via Google images http://www.google.com/search?num=10&...w=1024&bih=667

Last edited by scrantiX; 01-12-2013 at 10:05 PM..
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:10 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,222,301 times
Reputation: 3401
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
You were giving out false info. The SF Bay Area does not take 6K sqmi, read the PDF 1080 the SF Bay Area continuously urban population is 5,864,000 and Randstad is split between Amsterdam and The Hague/Rotterdam.
The Randstad reaches much further than Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam. It includes Utrecht (which is another major city in a different province) and dozens of surrounding smaller cities and villages.

Quote:
It's not built up look at the rural undeveloped land between the northwing and the southwing


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...with_scale.png

SF Bay Area is built up along the rim of the bay, where the developable land sits. Look at the map and look at the vanilla "agricultural land". That is undeveloped land with sparse population.

Like this, look at that rural undeveloped land in there
That map is a gross oversimplification. Just ask yourself this: if that much of the Randstad is really undeveloped, sparsely populated land, where the hell do all those millions of people live? It's not like they're all centred in the major cities, even if you take Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht combined it's not even 2 million. So where do those other 5+ million people live in the area between Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht if nearly all of it is undeveloped farmland? Something doesn't add up

I think if someone visited the Randstad with that image in mind, expecting to be surrounded by quaint little villages and barely populated countryside, he would get quite the surprise

Quote:
Post a link
Are you really that lazy?

Amsterdam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rotterdam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Hague - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^ Look under demographics.

Quote:
SF Bay Area there is no rural land between the 3 cities, it is built up.
No, but you said yourself there were mountains and there's limited flat land to build on, unlike the Netherlands.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,199,762 times
Reputation: 1077
My neighborhood in San Francisco ---> Nob Hill
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8229/8...87108c35_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8326/8...9a703db3_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7236/6...47ec5cd1_c.jpg
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:19 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,182,456 times
Reputation: 11862
The two are so different, it would invariably be a US vs the Netherlands comparison.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:23 PM
 
520 posts, read 482,788 times
Reputation: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
I don't know, isn't the US in general cheaper than Western Europe? The Randstad is quite expensive in terms of housing because it's so densely populated.

I do like warm weather but not the whole year, I like having four seasons and snow during the winter (only around Christmas though ). The Netherlands is a bit too cold for me but something like the climate of Central France would be perfect.
As Scrantix has pointed out, the Bay Area is one of the more expensive places in he US for housing, and SF (the city) is significantly more expensive than the suburbs. If I were to compare, say, the Jordaan to ...oh...Pacific Heights ( someone please feel free to correct me if my comparisons are outdated), I doubt you'd find it cheaper.

SF weather is not warm year round, and some would say it is never warm. That said, you could just go to a different neighborhood for different weather - gotta love those microclimates! If June in Twin Peaks is too cold for you, you could jump on BART and go to Brekeley and be at least ten degrees warmer, maybe more. I remember once strolling through San Rafael (north of the Golden Gate bridge) in mid 70 degree weather, and an hour later freezing in the 40s at SF airport.

Snow during Christmas....hmmmm...now that could be a problem...
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,199,762 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
That map is a gross oversimplification. Just ask yourself this: if that much of the Randstad is really undeveloped, sparsely populated land, where the hell do all those millions of people live? It's not like they're all centred in the major cities, even if you take Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht combined it's not even 2 million. So where do those other 5+ million people live in the area between Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht if nearly all of it is undeveloped farmland? Something doesn't add up
I dunno I have never cared to visit The Hague or Rotterdam. Amsterdam looks interesting the other two look boring. I don't expect folks to visit San Jose or Oakland btw.
Quote:
I think if someone visited the Randstad with that image in mind, expecting to be surrounded by quaint little villages and barely populated countryside, he would get quite the surprise
Google maps shows the same thing that map does Amsterdam, The Netherlands - Google Maps

SF Bay Area San Francisco, CA - Google Maps

The links to both, you folks decide they are zoomed to the same scale. IMO the SF Bay Area looks more built up and urban than Randstad... Area between northwing and southwing looks rural underdeveloped IMO.

What excuses now?
There are no numbers. I wont be having this discussion until someone posts numbers, that's what I wanted. A paragraph talking about different groups with no numbers or percents is really credible.

Only places they provide numbers for are Turkey and Morocco.
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