U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Your choice?
Randstad 9 36.00%
Bay Area 13 52.00%
Combined option for "none", "confused at the moment", "I don't really know where to begin", "huh" 3 12.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-13-2013, 12:53 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,182 posts, read 21,793,720 times
Reputation: 10258

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Fingers View Post
Hmmm...I dunno...Berkeley is pretty nice. In fact, I think I like it more than SF. Same thing with, say, Half Moon Bay to the south, or Sausalito or San Rafael to the north. If we're willing to stretch even more, Petaluma is absolutely gorgeous, as are Santa Rosa and Healdsburg.
Parts or all of what you mention is really pretty great, but they aren't large cities and they don't generally reach the quaintness of small towns and cities in the Randstad and much of what makes them great is the beautiful environment of the Bay Area but the cities/towns themselves are not so impressive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-13-2013, 01:02 AM
 
520 posts, read 483,148 times
Reputation: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Parts or all of what you mention is really pretty great, but they aren't large cities and they don't generally reach the quaintness of small towns and cities in the Randstad and much of what makes them great is the beautiful environment of the Bay Area but the cities/towns themselves are not so impressive.
True, they're not large cities. Their ambiance is obviously very different, but in my mind, just as nice. I do like Dutch cities, mind you, so I'm not arguing against them - just saying that there are places in the Bay Area other than SF that are great. In fact, Half Moon Bay has a great downtown area - very small, but beautiful houses and very walkable. Downtown Petaluma is really beautiful with its antique shops, wine bars and awesome restaurants - and one of the nicest bookstores I've even been in...its on Kentucky, and I can't quite recall the name now..and how could I forget Cafe Zazzle, where the owner/chef walks out among the patrons asking how things are, and asking if they want to try out something he's been experimenting with.....good stuff!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,182 posts, read 21,793,720 times
Reputation: 10258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Fingers View Post
True, they're not large cities. Their ambiance is obviously very different, but in my mind, just as nice. I do like Dutch cities, mind you, so I'm not arguing against them - just saying that there are places in the Bay Area other than SF that are great. In fact, Half Moon Bay has a great downtown area - very small, but beautiful houses and very walkable. Downtown Petaluma is really beautiful with its antique shops, wine bars and awesome restaurants - and one of the nicest bookstores I've even been in...its on Kentucky, and I can't quite recall the name now..and how could I forget Cafe Zazzle, where the owner/chef walks out among the patrons asking how things are, and asking if they want to try out something he's been experimenting with.....good stuff!!
Yea, I agree there are nice parts and I did list North Bay specifically in a previous post which has a lot of quite nice places. It's the big cities where the Randstad really shines in comparison to the Bay Area, but in terms of smaller towns they both have some pretty good spots though even then I tend to prefer the Dutch places.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2013, 08:56 AM
 
520 posts, read 483,148 times
Reputation: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yea, I agree there are nice parts and I did list North Bay specifically in a previous post which has a lot of quite nice places. It's the big cities where the Randstad really shines in comparison to the Bay Area, but in terms of smaller towns they both have some pretty good spots though even then I tend to prefer the Dutch places.
Fair enough...and, by the way, I remebered the name of the bookstore...Copperfield's. Very, very nice place, as I recall.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,225,549 times
Reputation: 3401
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
I dunno I have never cared to visit The Hague or Rotterdam. Amsterdam looks interesting the other two look boring. I don't expect folks to visit San Jose or Oakland btw.

Google maps shows the same thing that map does Amsterdam, The Netherlands - Google Maps

SF Bay Area San Francisco, CA - Google Maps

The links to both, you folks decide they are zoomed to the same scale. IMO the SF Bay Area looks more built up and urban than Randstad... Area between northwing and southwing looks rural underdeveloped IMO.

What excuses now?
We're not comparing Amsterdam and San Francisco, this thread is about the Randstad and the Bay Area. If you want to believe that 7+ million people fit into less than half the size of the Bay Area when most of it is undeveloped farmland and the major cities combined don't even have 2 million people, you are free to do so. That other map you showed is not only outdated (it shows The Hague as having less than 500,000 inhabitants), it also only demonstrates cities with at least 40,000 inhabitants. Therefore, the Randstad must be continuously built up because the area between Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht houses over 5 million people in mostly smaller cities (rather than having a few highly populated centers and nothing in between). Thank you for making my argument for me

Quote:
There are no numbers. I wont be having this discussion until someone posts numbers, that's what I wanted. A paragraph talking about different groups with no numbers or percents is really credible.

Only places they provide numbers for are Turkey and Morocco.
There are numbers for the % of Europeans and non-Europeans, and it breaks down the major immigrant groups in % as well. Anyway, I'm not interested in having this discussion because that wasn't even my argument in the first place, YOU were the one who brought it up because you misinterpreted my post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2013, 10:40 AM
 
92 posts, read 160,726 times
Reputation: 117
Thanks for posting those SF photos. Makes me wanna visit again!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2013, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,479 posts, read 7,732,352 times
Reputation: 7299
Let's drop the pitchforks here for a moment. I paired the two places up with one another because I felt the Bay Area is one of the only few places in the United States that can handle a pairing with yet another successful and globally important conurbation.

Let's drop the arguments (for both sides) about which one is more "continuously built up" and "denser and/or more urban" and let's focus on the positives both bring to the quality of life of it's respective inhabitants. As well as work to emphasize key strengths and special features for each of the two.

I highly doubt most would disagree with the notion that they are both fine places to live, work, & play.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2013, 02:41 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,182 posts, read 21,793,720 times
Reputation: 10258
Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
Let's drop the pitchforks here for a moment. I paired the two places up with one another because I felt the Bay Area is one of the only few places in the United States that can handle a pairing with yet another successful and globally important conurbation.

Let's drop the arguments (for both sides) about which one is more "continuously built up" and "denser and/or more urban" and let's focus on the positives both bring to the quality of life of it's respective inhabitants. As well as work to emphasize key strengths and special features for each of the two.

I highly doubt most would disagree with the notion that they are both fine places to live, work, & play.
And just how do you propose to ban scrantix from your topic?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2013, 02:59 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,252 posts, read 2,456,536 times
Reputation: 1554
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
We're not comparing Amsterdam and San Francisco, this thread is about the Randstad and the Bay Area. If you want to believe that 7+ million people fit into less than half the size of the Bay Area when most of it is undeveloped farmland and the major cities combined don't even have 2 million people, you are free to do so. That other map you showed is not only outdated (it shows The Hague as having less than 500,000 inhabitants), it also only demonstrates cities with at least 40,000 inhabitants. Therefore, the Randstad must be continuously built up because the area between Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht houses over 5 million people in mostly smaller cities (rather than having a few highly populated centers and nothing in between). Thank you for making my argument for me
Linda, I agree with most of your points but I don't get this statement (in bold) at all. Anyone who has ever driven around the Randstand or looked at a map knows that the triangle area between the Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Utrecht conurbations is predominantly empty space.

This is the view from E19 about halfway between Amsterdam and Rotterdam:

netherlands - Google Maps

This is the view from the E25 between Utrecht and Rotterdam:

netherlands - Google Maps

The 5 million you refer to is concentrated overwhelmingly in the vicinity of the 4 big cities and along the coast. Towns like Dordrecht, Delft, Haarlem, Leiden, Almere etc etc.

That said, I would much prefer the development pattern of the Randstad, featuring many beautiful historic towns each possessing its own individual character and identity surrounded by open land to the endless bland suburban sprawl that you see in most of the Bay Area. Then again, we are comparing a region with 800+ years of history to one with about 150 (most of which grew in the car age).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2013, 03:53 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,225,549 times
Reputation: 3401
Since Scrantix posted a bunch of pictures of the Bay Area, let me do the same for the Randstad

Amsterdam






Rotterdam




The rest follows, don't want to mess up the lay-out
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top