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Old 01-14-2013, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,304 posts, read 17,937,634 times
Reputation: 6255

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What they are saying is that the Freedoms that have traditionally prevailed in the USA have, if anything, eroded somewhat, while virtually all developed countries, some developing countries, and even a few third world countries have caught up, so the freedoms one takes for granted in the USA are pretty much the same as everyone has in a lot of other countries. The issue is whether Freedom is a relevant consideration in the OP's intention of moving to the USA, and I doubt that he would find himself any more free in the USA than where is is now.
There are many people around the world IMO who have either not been around long enough, or have not been educated enough about the country itself, why it was founded, and why so many immigrants happened to come here in the first place.

I do agree that some of the freedoms are eroded, but a lot of them come from new problems that have never been faced before and therefore no laws. The US is still a fairly "free" country as much as conspiracy nuts like to think.

Quote:
You have to remember that the Bill of Rights only constrains the Government from infringing on your freedoms. Private Americans on the street are not bound by the Constitution to grant you any freedoms, and going about your daily business pretty much depends on society's willingness to grant you freedoms. Most Americans go years on end without ever having a single experience of exercising a Constitutional freedom.

People vote in virtually every country, there is freedom of speech and press and religion in practically every country, there is due process in the criminal and civil courts in virtually every country. What constitutional right does an American have that does not prevail elsewhere?
Please read my entire post. Nowhere did I say that the USA is more free than any other country in the world. Again, many people came here 100+ years ago because not many other countries in the world *AT THE TIME* offered the same type of freedom. The only thing I said is that there are still many freedoms here, but I also said that many other countries have "caught up" to the US, and some have exceeded it. I'm not sure what you're arguing here. We're both agreeing that many other countries in the world are now pretty free.

The Bill of Rights, constitution, etc prevents the government itself from making any laws restricting things like religion. The constitution is not an individual law of sort. This is why the legislative branch, for example, is needed. Not everything is covered by the Constitution (true of any country in the world). Laws are eventually needed in this case. For example, the constitution didn't say anything about anti discrimination laws (even though it alludes to it). The founders of the country did not necessarily forsee everything, which is why they made it amendable, but also made it so laws can be created from that.



Again, nowhere did I say the US is the optimal place for freedom, but it still has a lot. I hate patriots here with a passion. I think there's a lot of things that have declined in the US, but overall you still have a lot of freedoms. Sure, if you want to have sex in the middle of a park with women and children present, then the US is not the place for you (except people still do it in the open at various nightclubs in various cities and have for quite some time). You can still do a ton of **** here without getting in trouble for it though and yeah, tons of other countries have a lot of freedoms *now* too, but to say "I don't know why the US has anything to do with freedom" shows a complete ignorance.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:08 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,672 posts, read 18,227,608 times
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Nowadays, when people talk about "freedom" they're really talking about economic opportunities. What good is all the political freedom in the world if you don't have money? Without money, your life is limited and you really aren't free.

That's the new global reality and the game is one step above what it was in the past.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
5,901 posts, read 7,954,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
But in the end, this country is still very much free. Other countries have caught up to us, but to say "I don't get why freedom is related to the US" shows that you have a lot to learn about the US that you don't know.
No, you missunderstood me. I know all those things you posted, but i read many (MANY) times on this forum the "USA is the freest country in the world" speech, and the OP posted a bunch of reasons for going to a country and listed "free" only under USA, as if the other countries op was considering werent free. I read a lot of people in other forums discussing things about other countries and a lot of americans popping up and saying "but in usa you are free", "where could you be as free as in the usa?" and all that. Americans somehow think they are the freest (lol is that even a word?) people on the planet and that actually shows that most people in USA dont know squat about how free the rest of the world is.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:43 PM
 
27 posts, read 22,859 times
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Ok good, thanks for all the replies. Let me clear few things about my original post.

1. Someone said I probably have the same freedom as I would have in US..not really. We are so limited with everything here, if you want to do any modifications to your car you need papers, if you want to paint it you need papers, if you want to add bumpers you need papers, WHATEVER you change you need papers. Then...there are tires limites (car x can have x inch tires max), I dont even want to get into business "freedom". Its just...too complicated all together and in some cases very limited.

2. I am mainly thinking about USA, Canada and Australia because I want better life for me. Average wage where I live is $12k per annum, most people are not nice ( I dont want to blame anything or anyone, just saying.. ). I have a couple of friends on Skype from US and we are good friends, they are very friendly, etc..

I would like to get better education, good job and later on start my own business.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
5,901 posts, read 7,954,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b768023 View Post
Ok good, thanks for all the replies. Let me clear few things about my original post.

1. Someone said I probably have the same freedom as I would have in US..not really. We are so limited with everything here, if you want to do any modifications to your car you need papers, if you want to paint it you need papers, if you want to add bumpers you need papers, WHATEVER you change you need papers. Then...there are tires limites (car x can have x inch tires max), I dont even want to get into business "freedom". Its just...too complicated all together and in some cases very limited.
.
there are many countries in where you wont need papers to do ANYTHING. Actually, in Argentina you would need less papers than in USA to modified your house or do whatever. Of course that comes with a downside (such as a corrupt state of mind of the society). Are you basing you entire notion of freedom in how much papers you need to do stuff? why do u think the USA is the more open in this aspect? where country are you from?

I assure you the USA is not the freest country in the world, and there are many countries in where you would feel free, depending what you understand by it.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:49 PM
 
27 posts, read 22,859 times
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No not just in the papers sense, but thats 1 things I wanted to point out. Right now I live in slovenia and as you might know there are protest in whole country going on..
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
5,901 posts, read 7,954,791 times
Reputation: 4358
I would go to Canada or Australia if i were you. At least then you dont have the gun-obsessed and the extreme patriots. And you would def have the freedom there too.
Maybe go to Vancouver or somewhere not as cold?
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:00 AM
 
27 posts, read 22,859 times
Reputation: 10
I am not really sure which way to think about. The wages in Australia are like 7 times higher as here which is great, but then I cant imagine running a business there just because of that. About canada I like the most when I hear about how nice people there are, which is something here is not so nice and good. USA.. business
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,304 posts, read 17,937,634 times
Reputation: 6255
Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
No, you missunderstood me. I know all those things you posted, but i read many (MANY) times on this forum the "USA is the freest country in the world" speech, and the OP posted a bunch of reasons for going to a country and listed "free" only under USA, as if the other countries op was considering werent free. I read a lot of people in other forums discussing things about other countries and a lot of americans popping up and saying "but in usa you are free", "where could you be as free as in the usa?" and all that. Americans somehow think they are the freest (lol is that even a word?) people on the planet and that actually shows that most people in USA dont know squat about how free the rest of the world is.

No offense, but why do you base your opinions off of what people do on this forum? A lot of people don't even represent an "average" thought for a lot of countries. Some do, some are informed, many are misinformed. You put too much weight into this. Get out and meet people from the country, travel to the country itself instead of basing your opinions on what some random people said on an internet forum. I've seen a lot of stuff on here spewed out about various countries that's not even true. It's pretty messed up how much **** gets spewed around.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:07 AM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,805 posts, read 16,996,201 times
Reputation: 8981
If you would choose USA, which region would you be interested in?
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