U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-22-2013, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,324 posts, read 18,022,202 times
Reputation: 6268

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
Yeahh there are quite a few things we need to work on as a country. Don't get me wrong, America's my favorite country but some decisions frustrate me to no end. Our anti-transit policies and our restrictions on alcohol hours, dry county thing, noise issues-- America's too capitalist for it's own good, the few cater to the NIMBY's.

Love those videos of Istanbul:

- The first video with the transit train going overhead next to what looks like a busy thoroughfare is legit, love the outdoor culture with the people dining outside while people play music for them all right next to a lively pedestrian environment. It's incredible seeing how social people are too, they're mixing well too.

The social atmosphere from there is enviable, we shut down here in the United States too early in the night and our density/urban environments outside of Manhattan pale in comparison. We could better our country if we geared up to be much more leisure friendly from a social and cultural take than we are. I think it's great that people visit to see beaches and mountains and theme parks here but it would be better if people came to see a 24/7 urban atmosphere just teeming with culture and vibrancy-- that's where we fall short. We don't have anywhere near enough places like that for it.
Definitely agree with you. I love it here for various reasons, but other reasons I do not love. In the restaurant scene of Istanbul, that's just one area. It's actually not too far from the Blue Mosque and along the Marmara sea area. Called Kumkapi. I think things get even crazier in an area like Ortakoy or Beyoglu across the strait. Those areas have a younger, hipper crowd and there's a lot of bars/clubs around there.

In the US, only a few cities don't really shut down too early. Those would be Miami, NYC, Chicago, and LA. Maybe a few others here and there. In Chicago, there is one area which I do love at night in the Gold Coast. If you lived here you might remember it, but the little triangular park that forms the "Viagra Triangle." There is an energy out there in the summer you may find in some European countries. Things are open late and people are out late sitting around and socializing. I have been out there at 3am and 4am where people are all just sitting in the park area and socializing. This doesn't happen too much though. Most things in the US are too far apart and while establishments certainly try and put their tables outside and create an environment..sometimes it's good but too predictable. There's not a lot of random conversation between the tables going on. People aren't getting up and dancing to random musicians coming around and playing music. It's laid back which is fine, but there's a lack of things that some European/Asian cultures have. I really wish there was more of that in the US.

I think though that this type of social outdoor behavior in these areas has something to do with the density. I think people in more dense areas are more likely to be more social even with strangers.

If you like Anthony Bourdain btw, he did an episode on Istanbul that's decent
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-22-2013, 02:11 AM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,497 posts, read 7,779,597 times
Reputation: 7317
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Definitely agree with you. I love it here for various reasons, but other reasons I do not love. In the restaurant scene of Istanbul, that's just one area. It's actually not too far from the Blue Mosque and along the Marmara sea area. Called Kumkapi. I think things get even crazier in an area like Ortakoy or Beyoglu across the strait. Those areas have a younger, hipper crowd and there's a lot of bars/clubs around there.

In the US, only a few cities don't really shut down too early. Those would be Miami, NYC, Chicago, and LA. Maybe a few others here and there. In Chicago, there is one area which I do love at night in the Gold Coast. If you lived here you might remember it, but the little triangular park that forms the "Viagra Triangle." There is an energy out there in the summer you may find in some European countries. Things are open late and people are out late sitting around and socializing. I have been out there at 3am and 4am where people are all just sitting in the park area and socializing. This doesn't happen too much though. Most things in the US are too far apart and while establishments certainly try and put their tables outside and create an environment..sometimes it's good but too predictable. There's not a lot of random conversation between the tables going on. People aren't getting up and dancing to random musicians coming around and playing music. It's laid back which is fine, but there's a lack of things that some European/Asian cultures have. I really wish there was more of that in the US.

I think though that this type of social outdoor behavior in these areas has something to do with the density. I think people in more dense areas are more likely to be more social even with strangers.

If you like Anthony Bourdain btw, he did an episode on Istanbul that's decent
Yeahh I largely consider Chicago my American hometown, it was the first place I lived in the United States and it's had a lasting impression on me to what cities should be like.

Chicago has a special culture for me, I love the American culture-- saw the broadway play "Chicago" and it was fantastic. My parents still have a loft in River North so I can visit it anytime-- I just haven't been able to in the last 2 years.

What I've noticed with Chicago is that it's a real late night city for bars, I've personally been bar hopping all over the Near North & Gold Coast areas as well due to relatively short walk. I also like how a few of the lines are 24/7-- which isn't all too common in most of America but I haven't used CTA all that much, I prefer foot and everything is a very short trek from there.

The city's been gearing up more to become leisure friendly which I think it should, it reminds me a lot of my hometown Singapore-- both of which I consider misplaced but kindred spirit cities because they superficially share a lot in common. They can both work on the becoming more leisure friendly, both cities are more so on the corporate side which is disheartening because they both have hidden cultural attractions like the Art Institute, Shedd, the Esplanade, TheaterWorks, Raffle Place, Chicago Theatre, Chicago Improv, and just about every single art gallery in River North.

There are times when I really miss both my "hometowns" both my natural one and my American one-- gladly I have a place to go to when I visit the both of them. I'm largely a theater/museum/art gallery/scenery/opera/symphony/comedy/house/trance/techno fanatic and both cities get absolutely a 10/10 from my end on those and at the bare minimum 9/10 for their foodie scene. Miss the gyros the most.

I'd like for both of them to aspire to be 24/7 and they have the amenities in place but both cities need some serious leadership to make it happen, they're great places to showcase to the world despite their smaller sizes compared to most cities being discussed in this thread. The Red Lights District in Singapore and a few hookah bars doesn't cut it, I'd like to see more late night activity and some more geared toward the arts.

Last edited by Facts Kill Rhetoric; 03-31-2013 at 07:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2013, 05:30 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,391,419 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by valentro View Post
Yeahh I largely consider Chicago my American hometown, it was the first place I lived in the United States and it's had a lasting impression on me to what cities should be like.

Chicago has a special culture for me, I love the American culture-- saw the broadway play "Chicago" and it was fantastic. My parents still have a loft in River North so I can visit it anytime-- I just haven't been able to in the last 2 years.

What I've noticed with Chicago is that it's a real late night city for bars, I've personally been bar hopping all over the Near North & Gold Coast areas as well due to relatively short walk. I also like how a few of the lines are 24/7-- which isn't all too common in most of America but I haven't used CTA all that much, I prefer foot and everything is a very short trek from there.

The city's been gearing up more to become leisure friendly which I think it should, it reminds me a lot of my hometown Singapore-- both of which I consider misplaced but kindred spirit cities because they superficially share a lot in common. They can both work on the becoming more leisure friendly, both cities are more so on the corporate side which is disheartening because they both have hidden cultural attractions like the Art Institute, Shedd, the Esplanade, TheaterWorks, Raffle Place, Chicago Theatre, Chicago Improv, and just about every single art gallery in River North.

There are times when I really miss both my "hometowns" both my natural one and my American one-- gladly I have a place to go to when I visit the both of them. I'm largely a theater/museum/art gallery/scenery/opera/symphony/comedy/house/trance/techno fanatic and both cities get absolutely a 10/10 from my end on those and at the bare minimum 9/10 for their foodie scene. Miss the gyros the most.

I'd like for both of them to aspire to be 24/7 and they have the amenities in place but both cities need some serious leadership to make it happen, they're great places to showcase to the world despite their smaller sizes compared to most cities being discussed in this thread. The Red Lights District in Singapore and a few hookah bars doesn't cut it, I'd like to see more late night activity and some more geared toward the arts.


Yeahh it's one of my all time favorite cities, I love it's scenery. I was there back in 2008 and instantly loved it-- it was the same weekend as Comic Con as well so that was a major plus for me and they had this unique "build your own car" parade over at the marina-- lots of cool vehicles.

Honestly, I'm saving San Diego, Seattle, Denver, or Tucson more for later on in life. When I'm old and would want a smaller more manageable city with, each with the types of scenery (all different from each other) that I prefer in the United States.

I want to see the Forbidden City first there, I've seen it depicted in so many different types of films and pictures and I'd like to see it. It gives the sense of a traditional vibe-- which I really want to see out of China's capital without having to double up a trip with Xi'an.

I haven't been to Nashville yet, I'm trying to get around to seeing it. I've heard a lot of good things and it's my goal to see all 50 states and all major cities within the next 5 years, so it's a must see for me. I'm not so sure how I'll get with the country music culture or the pop culture either, those aren't much of my favorite genres of music but I want to see it's cultural institutions and such.

In the United States I have 12 states left to visit (North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Alaska, Hawaii, Nebraska, Kansas, Kentucky, Minnesota, Maine, and Vermont) and of the major cities I only have Seattle, Las Vegas, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Louisville, Omaha, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, Honolulu, Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh left.

I've seen Memphis, I have mostly mixed reviews for the place-- overall Beale Street was cool and so was the southern cuisine I suppose but much of the city is in such disrepair and rundown, ehhhh.
Next time in the US I'll be sure to visit Chicago. I've been through 16 states, from California to Massachusetts, across the southern half and eastern seaboard, so next time I'll check out the north. I suppose after NYC Chicago might seem like a smaller NYC but I think it'll still be impressive.

Singapore receives almost as many visitors as NYC and is in every sense of the word a world class city. The MRT probably should run 24/7, since it's already a fairly 'round the clock' city, but not to the extent of Seoul, NYC or Sao Paulo.

San Diego's greatest assets are it's climate and nearby sites. Love the Mexican food and Old Town, Balboa Park, the Coronado. The downtown itself is okay, the Gaslamp is cool. It lacks the big city urban vibe but I like it's chilled beachy vibe.

Nashville is more than country music these days - it's fairly important for music in general. It's pretty new and all that. I also found Memphis disappointing: very run down, deserted, felt small.

The Forbidden City is indeed awesome - and is basically next to Tiananmen. Both are incredibly huge, it's hard to really appreciate the size of it.

Last edited by Facts Kill Rhetoric; 03-31-2013 at 07:49 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2013, 05:34 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,391,419 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlaver View Post
The problem about Karachi is that I don't know if the estimations of population are very trustworthy. Does exist some population official census provided by Pakistaní government?.

Macau challenges the imagination. ¿Do you believe that in these two images lives almost 600.000 people?



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Macau's density on wiki is listed as only 48,092 people per square mile. I would say it's around the same as Hong Kong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2013, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Limbo
6,459 posts, read 5,941,208 times
Reputation: 6228
I don't know if Manila has been mentioned yet, but it is absolutely insane. Both the metro and city-center Manila are a wee bit packed in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2013, 11:27 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
45,770 posts, read 39,876,424 times
Reputation: 14680
I'm not sure how we got to some American cities that definitely don't belong in the top 10 densest cities.

As to New York City, while many cities worldwide reach similar or higher residential densities in their center, a few parts have very high daytime densities. because of skyscrapers parts of Manhattan have very high daytime population density. I remember seeing somewhere that Midtown Manhattan has 650,000 workers per square mile over an area of 1.1 square miles. Adding other people passing through, for example shoppers and just day trippers passing through, at certain times of day the people per area should be somewhat higher than that, maybe 750,000-800,000 people per square mile so it feels much more crowded than residential numbers suggest.

As for Times Square, I used to think of a crowded obstacle to avoid. For example when walking from the bus station getting back from college to the train station to my parent's house.

Here's a 3-d visualization of daytime vs residential density of Manhattan:

http://joelertola.com/grfx/population/d_n_lg1.jpg

and for other American cities click:

Day vs. night population maps
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2013, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Liminal Space
1,018 posts, read 1,170,375 times
Reputation: 1294
No one has mentioned historical densities yet. In the year 1900 New York City's Ward 10 (Lower East Side, bounded by Bowery, Rivington, Norfolk, and Division (now East Broadway)) had a density of 433,000 people/square mile which is almost certainly the highest density that ever existed, or will ever exist, in North America.
New York (Manhattan) Wards: Population & Density 1800-1910
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2013, 05:04 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
45,770 posts, read 39,876,424 times
Reputation: 14680
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentobox34 View Post
No one has mentioned historical densities yet. In the year 1900 New York City's Ward 10 (Lower East Side, bounded by Bowery, Rivington, Norfolk, and Division (now East Broadway)) had a density of 433,000 people/square mile which is almost certainly the highest density that ever existed, or will ever exist, in North America.
New York (Manhattan) Wards: Population & Density 1800-1910
I wouldn't be so sure of that. This proposed project would have 17,150 people at a density of 500,000 per square mile. It's smaller than ward 10 and probably won't be built at that scale. But it's likely evenutally something large on that scale will get built.

Atlantic Yards Report: Extreme density: Atlantic Yards plan would dwarf Battery Park City, other projects
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2013, 07:53 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,391,419 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentobox34 View Post
No one has mentioned historical densities yet. In the year 1900 New York City's Ward 10 (Lower East Side, bounded by Bowery, Rivington, Norfolk, and Division (now East Broadway)) had a density of 433,000 people/square mile which is almost certainly the highest density that ever existed, or will ever exist, in North America.
New York (Manhattan) Wards: Population & Density 1800-1910
Indeed, Manhattan's population peaked around 1910 with about 2,300,000 people. It's interesting how one compares densities with relatively low rise (a lot of 3-4 storey tenements) but less planned and more closely built, vs the towers we have today that are more spaced apart, with less land dedicated to residential uses. Shop-houses are still a feature in many cities around the world, but aren't characteristic of American cities, even the dense ones.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2013, 08:12 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
45,770 posts, read 39,876,424 times
Reputation: 14680
The American city competitions are extremely tiresome. The US has a relative scarcity of truly bustling, urban cities and few that the US does have the city vs city posters spend pages upon pages trying put those few cities down.

These views of New York City look dense:









a nice looking building:



which is denser, Rio or Saõ Paulo?

Saõ Paulo has more high rise but Rio has very denser older style core. The streetwall of 10+ story buildings remind me a bit of Manhattan. But this "car-light" street looks surprising peaceful to walk around on:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rio+d...17.92,,0,-5.21

narrow, dense colonial era streets:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rio+d...21.66,,0,-5.21

wall of tall buildings:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rio+d...,8.51,,0,-4.81

and more:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rio+d...12.61,,0,-8.71

going south into a residential neighborhood:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rio+d...292.02,,0,-1.7

appears likely less dense than a Spanish city. But further south the wealthy beach neighborhood Copacabana looks very dense:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rio+d...03.93,,0,-6.91

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rio+d...55.06,,0,-9.31

I don't think Rio would make it to the top 10 densest, away from the water and downtown it doesn't especially dense. Still an interesting looking and very lively city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top