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Old 01-18-2013, 05:55 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,805 posts, read 17,055,698 times
Reputation: 8981

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
This has nothing to do with where your grandparents come from. Learn more about statistics, demographics, and general scientific method/research methods before you say something like this. Honesetly. When you try and find reasons for why certain things are certain ways, you break down your data into smaller groups in hopes of finding patterns within the data. It's basic research and statistics, and science for that matter. You can't find GOOD cause and effect by looking at summarized data.

For example, when summarized data says "The unemployment percentage for America is 8.7%" there are ways to find out why that is, and if there are certain groups, for example, that are skewing the numbers one way or another. Putting people into even racial groups like this is nothing new. This has been done in research forever and there's nothing un PC about it. The un PC thing comes in how you interpret that data.
Okay, i didnt mean to take this thread off topic....

but i just believe it is unhealthy to separate people by the color of their skin, but if it really helps with research and statistics go ahead i guess but remember "minorities" shouldnt be looked down on....
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,313 posts, read 18,007,022 times
Reputation: 6262
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Okay, i didnt mean to take this thread off topic....

but i just believe it is unhealthy to separate people by the color of their skin, but if it really helps with research and statistics go ahead i guess but remember "minorities" shouldnt be looked down on....
This has nothing to do with looking down on minorities. You need to stop thinking of it like that. If the data says it's one way or another, that's what the data says. That's why you need to know what you're doing with statistics, demographics, whatever before you delve into this stuff. That's why I said it depends on how you interpret the data.

I have data from Redeye Chicago that has every homicide committed in the city since January 2007. It is microdata about who was killed, where they were killed exactly, exact time of day, race, gender, age, how they were killed, etc etc etc. The data "says" a certain group of people within a certain range and specific gender are the ones who're far and away being killed the most in the city. Is that looking down on that group? Even leaders in the communities close to the group, and part of the group say no. They use the data as supporting evidence for spurring change within their community.

People need to learn that not everything with the word "race" labeled on it is necessarily racist or bigoted. It depends on how you interpret the data, which is why it's important to learn about statistics, science, demographics, etc and the methods in research so you can determine for yourself which "studies" are legitimate and which are complete bull**** trying to push an agenda. If you have the data from above and read studies based on it, you can determine for yourself it's legitimate. However, if you read a study that was overtly racist and seen their data used and can't find a correlation at all within it, and/or seen they have made outrageous observations, then you know it's BS.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:11 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,805 posts, read 17,055,698 times
Reputation: 8981
I just got the feeling the poster who i responded to made it seem like it is the "ethnic minorities" fault that we have low health scores, it is actually Americas fault.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
15,966 posts, read 12,543,166 times
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Most countries would have significant demographic groups that would skew the statistics. I think it's better to just look at a country as a whole, rather than just choosing the healthiest percentage or trying to compare results without minorities.

Interesting article. I prefer the "one size fits all" approach to health care that my country has. What the US does is it's business.

It certainly seems to be a big issue there over there. I wonder how satisfied people are in the US compared to other countries?

Last edited by Joe90; 01-18-2013 at 07:45 PM..
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,313 posts, read 18,007,022 times
Reputation: 6262
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
I just got the feeling the poster who i responded to made it seem like it is the "ethnic minorities" fault that we have low health scores, it is actually Americas fault.
You are reading way, way too much into it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:51 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,716 posts, read 18,313,292 times
Reputation: 11250
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
I just got the feeling the poster who i responded to made it seem like it is the "ethnic minorities" fault that we have low health scores, it is actually Americas fault.
I'm don't know that it's anyone's "fault," in spite of that being the implication of the article. On the contrary, I'm pointing out that comparisons on these issues between America and other developed nations are not really apples-to-apples. They don't take into account significant factors that contribute to the difference. Lower health scores may have little to do with the healthcare system in America.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:16 PM
 
882 posts, read 1,730,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
Got this today from the Lancet....

Wealth but not health in the USA : The Lancet
Seriously - this article is difficult to take w/any level of serious thought or discussion - it's a blog post. Phrases such as "health alone" are purely subjective - there is no such thing as a definable, medical, nor scientific term as "health" (as in a state of existence).

The other issue that's seemingly popular is the $ spent. Guess what - Americans also spend the most per capita on Televisions, Apple branded products, and personal computers - none of which is relevant to the use of said devices or the quality of programming. Note too that the CDC points out that some 80% of US "health care" dollars are spent by roughly 20% of the population - a statistical reality that will boost the overall range as the raw numbers increase (in other words, much of the statistical data on large populations change rates as populations change - they don't scale proportionately. Few data sets do)

Note too that this "data" is reported - it's the norm in the US for even late term non birth fatalities to be recorded as "infant" - thus skewing the data when compared w/others.

To make the point - if one wishes to compare, then compare, as the saying goes, apples to apples. Otherwise, such comparisons are no better than five year olds pointing fingers at each other chanting "neenerneenerneener". Shame on the Lancet for putting their once stellar name to this.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:33 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
14,557 posts, read 11,580,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Yeah, I've noticed this too. Unfortunately, a lot of people seemed to be misinformed about the country and let their opinions be swayed too much either from what they have seen on TV or from weirdos on this forum even. I've seen a number of things expressed in this forum about the US that are pretty false. Now, I am not very patriotic, but I am someone who likes others to know as close to the truth as possible about anything and not go on being ignorant about a topic.
I had thought with the Lancet's findings that it was quite near the truth... and thought it might be of interest.. seems not...I come from the West of Scotland with very low health issues.. but it doesnt bother me when someone writes about it on the forum....it is the truth..
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,313 posts, read 18,007,022 times
Reputation: 6262
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
I had thought with the Lancet's findings that it was quite near the truth... and thought it might be of interest.. seems not...I come from the West of Scotland with very low health issues.. but it doesnt bother me when someone writes about it on the forum....it is the truth..
As pointed out before, there might be certain groups that can skew the numbers. The US has 315 million people, which is one of the largest countries, so you will have big groups of people who can skew numbers, and there are.

If you study obesity in the US for example, you will find that the states in the SE portion of the country such as Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, and Louisiana (etc) have the most trouble and are the most obese by far. I'd say it's also a rural mentality. You are much more likely to find obese people in the US in a rural area than living in the heart of a city. Why? I think part of it has to do with the fact that people grow up in the country here having the "meat and potatoes" mentality. Couple that with the fact that usually in a rural area, there's not much choice of food even grocery stores. People in rural areas tend to not be as well off, and here the cheapest stuff is the processed bull**** food that will hurt you. They aren't educated enough *on average* to know how to get away from this, eat healthier (and that it can be cheaper). Many do not want to be bothered and you telling them what to eat.

It's a big problem, but IMO if you were to completely take the SE portion of the country away, the numbers in this article would improve. I guarantee that with a lot of money. Obesity is a big problem here, but I'd say it depends on where you go. You have a higher chance of seeing obesity in the state mentioned above than in California, NY, etc. It is usually the Southern States from Texas going east to the Atlantic Ocean who see the most trouble with this stuff. It is part of their culture usually to eat whatever the **** they want and in a lot of cases, they're fed bull**** processed foods. I feel bad for them because they aren't too educated about it. With the US though, it's large and there are definite groups skewing the numbers. You can have almost any lifestyle you want living here. The mere fact this article doesn't break down that further is troublesome.

Just because I live in the US doesn't mean I eat fast food and have to. I happen to hate McDonald's, Taco Bell, Burger King, etc and you will find that a ton of people do too. Tons of people here hate fast food and refuse to even touch it (I, for example). It reminds me of a friend from Norway, the first time he came here he was shocked to find out that people actually eat healthily here and there's a lot more than just burger and hot dog joints.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:31 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,794,012 times
Reputation: 13621
The problem with these types of comparison is that the factors which make up statistics like life expectancy, etc. are highly complex and do differ from one country to another. They also differ within countries. Overall, the quality of health care in the USA is very good and certainly at a very similar level to other developed countries.

The challenge the USA has - and it is a huge challenge - is the cost of health care which is approximately double what an equivalent quality costs in other developed countries. And health care inflation does not seem to be abating. Thus, the USA is slowly approaching 20% of GDP spent on health care. And that is not sustainable. The impact of this is that health insurance is getting more expensive, deductibles are getting bigger and so are co-pays. Unless there is serious reform, many Americans will start to get priced out of decent health care.
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