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View Poll Results: Which city do you like best?
Melbourne 42 21.99%
Montreal 47 24.61%
Sydney 53 27.75%
Toronto 49 25.65%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 02-28-2013, 03:32 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 41,244,039 times
Reputation: 11862

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhundred View Post
Come on what a ridiculous question. You can ask what does Sydney offer more than a sail shaped opera house?

People come to Toronto for the reasons people go to any world class city. Toronto offers the opportunity for many to experience a very lively large and safe city with an international reputation for offering great multicultural dining and experiences, international festivals etc.

From what I understand Australian tourism as a whole has seen a downturn the last few years especially from those coming from the US and Europe. Just for the fact it's becoming hard for Australia to define itself to those tourists just why it's worth it (especially with the economy) to come all the way out there when it's essentially just another western country, as opposed to the more alluring far-eastern asia?

Also you mention this vague concept of the "average tourist", from what i understand "the average tourist" in Australia is now Chinese? and trust me there are plenty of those in toronto already.
You know full well what Sydney offer's. Something more unique than generic Toronto. Aside from the beach, the culture, the national parks.etc. Toronto offers little the average European or N.American could get back home. Of all the people who talk about going to Canada seldom talk about going to Toronto. Vancouver, Montreal, Quebec City, St. John's are interesting cities. Toronto is just not seen as a very big tourist destination.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:05 AM
 
455 posts, read 830,897 times
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You're being very presumptive here. From the point of view of most people in NA and i'd wager Europe as well Sydney is not a particularly defined city and yes when you bring up sydney the first thing most people will mention is the opera house.

You talk about Toronto being generic than offer up nothing about what makes Sydney so unique and exciting? Are you going to mention beaches? Because there are plenty of other destinations that have them often much much closer to where most NA's and Europeans live as well. It sounds like you are projecting your bizarre dislike of toronto onto others. Toronto gets many many tourists who enjoy it and it's leading your poll here by more than 3 to 1 votes.

Again you keep bringing up Toronto's western city generality and the hard to define nature of what is toronto is and like i mentioned that is exactly the problems plaguing aussie tourism now when trying to attract Europeans and North American. As sydney is itself just another western city but unlike Toronto it's located on the opposite side of the world from NA and Europe.

Thus many NA's and Europeans are finding it not worth all the travel and hassle to come to a place that is not so dissimilar from their home.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:46 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 41,244,039 times
Reputation: 11862
I'm talking about the interplay between the landscape and urban environment. Yes, I give you most people don't fly all the way to Australia to just see the cities, they want to see the 'Outback', Barrier Reef, hug a koala, that sort of thing, but Sydney is an iconic world city in a way I don't think Toronto is. Toronto might be a decent city to live in and fly under the radar, but it just doesn't have Sydney's glamour. Have you taken the ferry across Sydney harbour? There are few urban sights as beautiful, and in many ways I actually don't like Sydney. We're getting more and more Asian tourists, we're not that far from Asia (of course to you Europe and the Eastern US is the centre of the world) and I think that will be important in the future.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:40 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,204 posts, read 2,342,916 times
Reputation: 1478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhundred View Post
You're being very presumptive here. From the point of view of most people in NA and i'd wager Europe as well Sydney is not a particularly defined city and yes when you bring up sydney the first thing most people will mention is the opera house.

You talk about Toronto being generic than offer up nothing about what makes Sydney so unique and exciting? Are you going to mention beaches? Because there are plenty of other destinations that have them often much much closer to where most NA's and Europeans live as well. It sounds like you are projecting your bizarre dislike of toronto onto others. Toronto gets many many tourists who enjoy it and it's leading your poll here by more than 3 to 1 votes.

Again you keep bringing up Toronto's western city generality and the hard to define nature of what is toronto is and like i mentioned that is exactly the problems plaguing aussie tourism now when trying to attract Europeans and North American. As sydney is itself just another western city but unlike Toronto it's located on the opposite side of the world from NA and Europe.

Thus many NA's and Europeans are finding it not worth all the travel and hassle to come to a place that is not so dissimilar from their home.
No, it's not just the beaches. It's the whole cityscape and the nearly perfect concoction of urbanity and nature that is matched by very few cities in the world.

Comparing Sydney to Toronto would be like comparing LA to Chicago if, in addition to its already impressive assets, LA also had the skyline and urbanity of Chicago, a harbor and warm ocean beaches.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
19,384 posts, read 24,186,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhundred View Post
From what I understand Australian tourism as a whole has seen a downturn the last few years especially from those coming from the US and Europe. Just for the fact it's becoming hard for Australia to define itself to those tourists just why it's worth it (especially with the economy) to come all the way out there when it's essentially just another western country, as opposed to the more alluring far-eastern asia?
I don't think that the downturn in Australian tourism can automatically be attributed to there not being anything interesting to see down there. Competition and pricing from other parts of the world is more ferocious than ever, and Australia is an expensive place to visit. As you yourself said there are many other competing options that have opened up all over the world (including an explosion of destinations in Asia) with high-level but affordable amenities and facilities that make them enticing for Europeans and North Americans.

And while I do agree that there is lots to see and do in Toronto (that many people often dismiss), I must say I have rarely heard or read anyone say "don't go to Sydney (or Australia), not much there for a tourist", but I've very frequently heard this about Toronto (though I agree it's a tad unfair).

But I would add I've rarely heard people say this about Canada overall, and generally a lot of people seem to be gung ho about visiting places like Vancouver, Banff, Niagara Falls, Montreal, Quebec City, Prince Edward Island...
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:59 AM
 
2,182 posts, read 3,588,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
I generally agree with you so I don't want to nitpick... but. The economic clout point is arguable. There are several business surveys that rate Sydney higher than Toronto. In any event the gap is insignificant. The size difference - 4.6m vs 5.6m - is also not significant enough to have any impact on global profile.
"Sorry to nitpick, but.." That 5.6 million figure for the Toronto CMA is arbitrarily defined and doesn't include all of Toronto's urban area, which extends east into Oshawa and southwest into Hamilton (those are seperate CMAs totaling ~1.1 million people). Demographia has Toronto's urban area (slightly more restrictive than metro area definitions) at 6.1 million and Sydney at 3.9 for 2012. So I disagree with you -- I think that's actually a significant gap, and to me the fact that Sydney has a higher global profile than Toronto has to do with (a) the Olympics, and (b) poor PR by Toronto.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:20 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,204 posts, read 2,342,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
"Sorry to nitpick, but.." That 5.6 million figure for the Toronto CMA is arbitrarily defined and doesn't include all of Toronto's urban area, which extends east into Oshawa and southwest into Hamilton (those are seperate CMAs totaling ~1.1 million people). Demographia has Toronto's urban area (slightly more restrictive than metro area definitions) at 6.1 million and Sydney at 3.9 for 2012. So I disagree with you -- I think that's actually a significant gap, and to me the fact that Sydney has a higher global profile than Toronto has to do with (a) the Olympics, and (b) poor PR by Toronto.
I think you are missing the bigger picture here, which is that the nuances of CMA delineations and what should be included and shouldn't do not register on the radar of global perceptions. For Toronto, one source says 5.6m, another 6.whatever; for Sydney, one source says 3.9 another 4.6 (and if you add Wollongong - which is the same distance from Sydney as Hamilton is from Toronto - it could be over 5m). The only people who care about these details are urban geeks like us. You can squibble over the definitions but the bottom line is these cities are very much in the same global "weight class". The rest is just details.

Last edited by Fitzrovian; 02-28-2013 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:37 PM
 
1,544 posts, read 3,310,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Have you taken the ferry across Sydney harbour? There are few urban sights as beautiful
No, but I've taken the ferry across Toronto harbour, and the view of the skyline is absolutely spectacular.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:21 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 41,244,039 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
I think you are missing the bigger picture here, which is that the nuances of CMA delineations and what should be included and shouldn't do not register on the radar of global perceptions. For Toronto, one source says 5.6m, another 6.whatever; for Sydney, one source says 3.9 another 4.6 (and if you add Wollongong - which is the same distance from Sydney as Hamilton is from Toronto - it could be over 5m). The only people who care about these details are urban geeks like us. You can squibble over the definitions but the bottom line is these cities are very much in the same global "weight class". The rest is just details.
Sydney's metro area is also fairly limited. Like you say, Wollongong is not included. Nor is much of the lower Central Coast like Gosford. if those were included you would come up with a figure of over 5 million.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Melbourne
5 posts, read 20,928 times
Reputation: 15
I've been/lived in all the cities on this list. Born and raised in Toronto not the suburbs, lived in New York and currently living in Melbourne.

Toronto and Melbourne are very similar. If you're from Toronto or even Europe (Denmark etc), you'll feel right at home in Melbourne on your first day. It really is a great city but due to the location, expenses can add up quickly(fresh food), especially if you're used to North American prices on organic produce and brands. Shipping is ridiculous and because of this prices are three times at much but they include GST as Toronto prices do not(add 13%).

Produce is much better in Toronto!! There is a much better selection- what people don't know is that Toronto is a top city for produce and has one of the biggest inventories out there especially in whole sale. Where else can you get wholesale Costa Rican coconuts all year around due to festivals going on every weekend in Toronto or yellow organic watermelons or organic honeyberries?

The meat in Australia isn't that good compared to meat in Europe. A lot of Europeans complain about this.
Melbourne has a very nice charm to it. Wide bike lanes, big backyards with gardens, back lane coffee shops like Barcelona and big authentic coffee culture. It's one of my favourite cities in the world. It's tied up there with Toronto but as someone who loves to travel, getting away from Australia is pricey so Toronto tops the list. Toronto and Melbourne are both musical cities, Toronto more especially with indie rock- Melbourne lacks Hip Hop and that Jamaican flare Toronto has.

I don't even know why Sydney would even be called a world city? After a week or two in Sydney you'll be bored. Good as a tourist but not as a local as all the locals live in far away suburbs which takes forever to commute to by public transit. Why does Sydney need double decker subway trains that run every 18 minutes not including frequent delays opposed to having smaller trains that run more frequently? It's a mystery... Sydney has the worst transit system than any large city I've ever been too. It's really that bad... The Australian government brought a Brit over to fix it. With his 10 million dollar salary contract he said it would take at least ten years to fix. Transit is expensive too. Manly Beach- the best beach in Sydney is $14 to get to not including the train getting to Circular Quay. It's ridiculous. Bondi Beach is small and not as amazing as it's hyped up to be. Nobody actually goes in the water, just tans. There's much better beaches in the Caribbean and much closer to get to by plane with better all year around weather (Cayman, Bahamas etc). If you want nice beaches you go up the coast to Bryon Bay or Noosa not Sydney(windy etc).
Yes, Sydney is like Vancouver. Nice to look at but hollow. Newtown is hipster in Sydney but it's limited. Entertainment/clubs in Sydney is in Kings Cross NOT downtown Sydney. With transit, it can take a very long time to get there from Central Station especially on the way back. It's a downer. Nobody stays long in Sydney so making friends that stay longer than you there is rare.

1.Toronto in the summer is amazing especially the Toronto islands.
2.Melbourne(I would recommend Melbourne to anyone). It gets cold here- mornings feel like 5, freezing at night and it always rains unexpectedly but doesn't last more than an hour but still a pain in the ass.
3.Montreal
4.Dead last Sydney- I would never recommend you move here.
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