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Old 02-06-2013, 10:28 PM
 
558 posts, read 532,877 times
Reputation: 166

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
I don't understand what you mean by the hospital/ER parallel. A hospital isn't just an ER room.

No, but my doctor is a general practitioner and has at least knowledge in all of these areas. If not enough, I can be referred to a specialist if need be...and my bank doesn't take a beating. Imagine that.

What do you mean at this point? I said post-sec generally costs money. So then I agree with you here?

I don't pay full cost either. We have tons of bursaries and scholarships and many people ended up paying nothing at all because of what they are entitled to for having a combination of good marks and other things (cultural scholarships, sports sponsorships, etc.) the point is that there will always be some people out there who have to pay out of their ass because they were unlucky in all of these departments or maybe were not interested in their academic performance at one point, but have since put themselves in post-sec to broaden their options.

I had "linked" them because I was getting to the end of my post and they happened to end up in the same sentence.
I don't get why you and many others can't accept that in the US healthcare is done differently. Your healthcare is paid indirectly through high taxes and you have to wait in line to see a doctor. While in the US healthcare is paid directly to our doctor and insurance of choice and our wait times are practically nonexistent. For those too old or poor, medicare and medicaid are available. And with Obama's new reforms our system will improve. Maybe you should spend more time focusing on the Canadian healthcare long wait time problem.

And, in the US we have so many public and private universities and colleges with a wide range of tuition levels so you can definitely find a good school that meets your needs.

I love how some people think they know more about America than Americans, and usually they've never lived here before.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:51 PM
 
882 posts, read 1,731,024 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
I don't understand what you mean by the hospital/ER parallel. A hospital isn't just an ER room.
No kidding. Guess what - you don't get kicked out of either over $$ in the US. If that's not clear to you, then we've no common language.

Quote:
...and my bank doesn't take a beating. Imagine that
Again, so? FWIW, I have no desire for my fellow citizens to cover my health insurance costs.

Quote:
What do you mean at this point? I said post-sec generally costs money
No, you specifically said: "cost of education is completely unreasonable" - here's data for you: my youngest nephew just finished up P&NG Engineering Degree. Tuition just over $7K US/year. Again, hardly "completely unreasonable".
Quote:
I had "linked" them because I was getting to the end of my post and they happened to end up in the same sentence.
If you say so...


Quote:
Originally Posted by drknoble View Post
I love how some people think they know more about America than Americans, and usually they've never lived here before.
BBBut they saw it on TV/interwebs so it must be true!
FWIW, I've spent more time in Canada (on business in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s) than most Canadians will spend in the US, yet I'll be the first to admit that spending that much time still leaves me in a poor position to speak w/much authority, yet any # of folks here who have spent (by their own admission) little/no time feel fine spouting off verbal... well, you get the idea.

Last edited by Jayess1; 02-06-2013 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,402 posts, read 4,252,829 times
Reputation: 4399
Quote:
Originally Posted by drknoble View Post
I don't get why you and many others can't accept that in the US healthcare is done differently. Your healthcare is paid indirectly through high taxes and you have to wait in line to see a doctor. While in the US healthcare is paid directly to our doctor and insurance of choice and our wait times are practically nonexistent. For those too old or poor, medicare and medicaid are available. And with Obama's new reforms our system will improve. Maybe you should spend more time focusing on the Canadian healthcare long wait time problem.

And, in the US we have so many public and private universities and colleges with a wide range of tuition levels so you can definitely find a good school that meets your needs.

I love how some people think they know more about America than Americans, and usually they've never lived here before.
Dude, it sucks. I'm aware of how it works. I can't justify how having money somehow earns you a better range of options than someone who doesn't. I know I pay higher taxes for universal health, and I prefer it that way. Wait times vary across the board, but I'll take some wait if I know it's equal opportunity for everyone. I mean, it's not even really an opinion thing when international study after international study points out that it is a horrible and disproportionate system.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:49 PM
 
14,790 posts, read 13,533,120 times
Reputation: 20482
Do people really believe that American citizenship is the end all and be all?

No.
Pretty happy with where I happened to be born.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,838,193 times
Reputation: 35910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayess1 View Post
?? Who is denied healthcare?
..
Everyone who cannot afford private insurance and has no job providing it, does not qualify for Medicaid or Medicare, or has pre-existing conditions. Which is currently estimated at about 40-million people,

Public hospitals are ONLY required to provide care regardless of ability to pay, in the case of emergencies. If a medical or health condition is not an emergency, there is no access to health care. Many medical facilities will turn away a patient who cannot provide proof of insurance at the front desk.

Redstaters are fond of saying that any American can go to any emergency room and get treated, but that is true only AFTER the cancer or stroke or heart attack requires heroic emergency intervention to prevent almost immediate death. Before that, they are denied health care unless they can pay for it at the going rate of private health insurance.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:15 AM
 
558 posts, read 532,877 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
Dude, it sucks. I'm aware of how it works. I can't justify how having money somehow earns you a better range of options than someone who doesn't. I know I pay higher taxes for universal health, and I prefer it that way. Wait times vary across the board, but I'll take some wait if I know it's equal opportunity for everyone. I mean, it's not even really an opinion thing when international study after international study points out that it is a horrible and disproportionate system.
"Dude it sucks"????? Have you used the American Healthcare system before? Do you have an American doctor, insurance plan, etc? Using your logic, I should just take some of the reports of people dying from long wait times and conclude Canadian healthcare sucks.

Canada's healthcare system is ranked 30th, and America's is 38th. So I guess the French, who are #1, should constantly bash Canadians and encourage people not to immigrate to Canada huh?World Health Organization ranking of health systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're a good example of how some people from other countries have an exaggerated view of America that they've gotten from movies and accepted as fact. Furthermore, the US is such an open country that we air out our dirty laundry more than just about every country. If there were the same number of movies, TV, documentaries, books, etc that covered Canada's problems as much as the US, maybe you'd see my point.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:35 AM
 
558 posts, read 532,877 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayess1 View Post
BBBut they saw it on TV/interwebs so it must be true!
FWIW, I've spent more time in Canada (on business in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s) than most Canadians will spend in the US, yet I'll be the first to admit that spending that much time still leaves me in a poor position to speak w/much authority, yet any # of folks here who have spent (by their own admission) little/no time feel fine spouting off verbal... well, you get the idea.
Exactly, apparently our life long experiences and education on US gov is trumped by theirs.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:45 AM
 
1,487 posts, read 1,997,111 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Everyone who cannot afford private insurance and has no job providing it, does not qualify for Medicaid or Medicare, or has pre-existing conditions. Which is currently estimated at about 40-million people,

Public hospitals are ONLY required to provide care regardless of ability to pay, in the case of emergencies. If a medical or health condition is not an emergency, there is no access to health care. Many medical facilities will turn away a patient who cannot provide proof of insurance at the front desk.

Redstaters are fond of saying that any American can go to any emergency room and get treated, but that is true only AFTER the cancer or stroke or heart attack requires heroic emergency intervention to prevent almost immediate death. Before that, they are denied health care unless they can pay for it at the going rate of private health insurance.
All you have said is very true but added to that is the cost even if you do have insurance. I have had a lot of medical problems in the past year now I have to fight the hospital for a slew of over-charges because one more weakness for the patient is the gouging that goes on in health-care not to mention the fraud that is rampant in Medicare by both hospitals and doctors. In Chicago right near my house a small hospital had to close because of the fines they suffered for fraud. Three doctors and a nurse from that institution are doing hard time right now. Even if you have Medicare you sill need to pay for a supplementary insurance and if you want good service you'll wind up with your Medicare premium of $107 a mo plus your supplement which if it is half way decent will still cost you at least another $100 a mo. I keep a private policy in Spain and it doesn't cost that much a month for a single individual. The EU has it well worked out so that if you want private insurance it is not expensive and most people have some form of private insurance. Not everyone in Europe uses the national health plan. Seems sometimes people on this side of the pond think they know what's going on over there without being in the system. It's a common aliment all over.

I don't know anything about the Canadian system because although I visit there a lot I have never used that system. However the person I visit is a tech at Nortel and works all over the world. When he is in the States or just about anywhere and he has a medical problem he always goes back to Canada because experience has taught him to trust that system. Even though the company will pay for his healthcare when he is here he still goes back to Canada if time permits. So it has nothing to do with the price tag it's about the service. He said the whole waiting thing is blown all out of proportion by people here in the US. I guess it's another case of foreigners knowing more about another country than the natives.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,402 posts, read 4,252,829 times
Reputation: 4399
I get that experiencing something helps with the credibility, but not being a US citizen doesn't make it impossible for me to wrap my head around it by any stretch. I don't like/think it's fair and you being offended about it doesn't change my mind.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:26 AM
 
882 posts, read 1,731,024 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Everyone who cannot afford private insurance and has no job providing it, does not qualify for Medicaid or Medicare, or has pre-existing conditions. Which is currently estimated at about 40-million people.
That's Insurance. I'm still waiting for the number of folks denied healthcare (the assertion made previously). FWIW, I'm in that group - I only carry catastrophic (which is far more regulated into "full" - why do I have to pay for maternaty coverage? Acupuncture? ) and pay cash. I don't really have the need to take other's income.
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