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Old 03-16-2013, 06:55 PM
 
Location: England
22,252 posts, read 5,510,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
97,000 / 60,000,00 = .16 % of population
2,250,000 / 313,914,040 = .71 % of population

Not quite five times.
To me, that seems very high. To have such a massive amount of people in American jails. Yet, read some threads of City-Data...... some people don't seem to think that's enough.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Orlando
109 posts, read 102,515 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
How do you work that out? I explained we have a 97,000 jail population with a 60 million population. You have five times as many people with a 2,250,000 jail population. You can do math?
Im sorry i don't know how I did that wrong!
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:35 PM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,973,553 times
Reputation: 12963
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
To me, that seems very high. To have such a massive amount of people in American jails. Yet, read some threads of City-Data...... some people don't seem to think that's enough.
There are some that shouldn't be in jail but are due to archaic laws. There are a lot of others that should be in jail and aren't for whatever reason. A good deal of the crime in this country is caused by illegal immigrants, yet some people think we should through our borders open. In the area I live in, 50% of all murders were perpetrated by illegals, 90% of those from one subgroup. Yet that same subgroup is the one yelling the loudest for amnesty.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Chicago(Northside)
3,719 posts, read 5,862,535 times
Reputation: 1642
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
I explicitly excluded health care reform, which is indeed a major change. But in a lot of ways, Obama is just continuing the Bush policies and is in some ways even worse (extension of Bush tax cuts, aggressive foreign policy (e.g. drone strikes), more supportive of Israel than even Bush was, enormous cuts on Medicare, etc.). His actions are not nearly as Progressive as his speeches make him out to be.

No country can go through radical changes overnight, not even the US. I mean, Obama has been in office since 2008 and his health care reform still hasn't been fully implemented.



Poverty is relative. Like I said, I grew up in the poorest class myself, with two (divorced) parents on welfare. Yes, we own a car although I walk whenever I can to save gasoline, and no I don't own a smartphone.



That's very simplistic thinking.



How then? Who says warm weather increases your quality of living? Like I said, not everyone likes warm weather, especially older people.
I couldnt take your last sentence serious. Older people prefer colder climates i never heard of older people wanting to move to the arctic.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,485 posts, read 20,022,997 times
Reputation: 22422
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
A good deal of the crime in this country is caused by illegal immigrants, yet some people think we should through our borders open.
The majority of the crimes in this country are committed by white collar criminals, whom, once caught, receive a slap on the wrist, or shipped off to a "country club"/Federal prison!

As the saying goes: A college degree gives you a license to steal! Legally!

The Chargemaster system widely used in our hospitals is an excellent example of that! Our "nickel and dime" thiefs: eat your hearts out!!!

With our fertility rate, the lowest since the Great Depression, we now face no choice but keep the borders open! The day will come when illegal immigrants will be canonized as saints!

Ditto for all the other countries in the world with low fertility rates! Japan is on its way to seeing its population shrink from 120 million to 80 million, and the U.S. would never allow that to happen here, see our population shrink like that!
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:24 PM
 
Location: England
22,252 posts, read 5,510,378 times
Reputation: 29118
I'm not here to bash America. I visit the US, and like the country, and the people. But, your amount of people in jail is obscene. Tent cities...... and at the same time the rich are getting richer, and a massive military budget provided by the taxpayer.

We have our own problems here in England, and countries in Europe as well. But, we don't have a homeless problem anywhere the scale of America.

I see homeless people in Las Vegas. People there living in flood tunnels under the strip. America is the richest country in the world, Surely, with any sense of social justice people living in tents, and underneath the casinos of Las Vegas, can't be right.

I know many Americans are independent of mind, believe in personal responsibility, and many have an attitude of "it's their own fault. They should try harder, get a job" etc. But something has gone seriously wrong here. Massive wealth, living cheek by jowl with great poverty. At the same time, people being jailed in numbers unseen anywhere else in the world.

To outsiders like me, it seems like its the land of the free - for the few, not the many.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:44 PM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,973,553 times
Reputation: 12963
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
I'm not here to bash America. I visit the US, and like the country, and the people. But, your amount of people in jail is obscene. Tent cities...... and at the same time the rich are getting richer, and a massive military budget provided by the taxpayer.
Like I said, many of them are illegal immigrants that have come here and committed crimes. Frankly I'd like to brand their foreheads as a criminal and take them to the border. Solve that problem quick and easy. Unfortunately that whole "cruel and unusual" thing gets in the way.

Quote:
I see homeless people in Las Vegas. People there living in flood tunnels under the strip. America is the richest country in the world, Surely, with any sense of social justice people living in tents, and underneath the casinos of Las Vegas, can't be right.
Many of the homeless in Vegas got that way due their own stupidity. They couldn't stop gambling and didn't avail themselves of the free help available for their addiction. That said, there are certain areas that have a disproportionately higher number of homeless, Vegas is one of them. Portland, San Francisco, and Miami area others. There are many parts of the US with very small to almost no homeless population, but you haven't been to them so all you are going by is the skewed image of Vegas.

Quote:
I know many Americans are independent of mind, believe in personal responsibility, and many have an attitude of "it's their own fault. They should try harder, get a job" etc. But something has gone seriously wrong here. Massive wealth, living cheek by jowl with great poverty. At the same time, people being jailed in numbers unseen anywhere else in the world.

To outsiders like me, it seems like its the land of the free - for the few, not the many.
You only see what you see on the media and in the limited places you've traveled. None of that represents and accurate picture.

By the way, the reason you don't see the ultra-rich in your country is because they've all become tax exiles and fled so they don't get robbed by the huge percentages you have on the dole. I have a number of friends who spend less than three months a year in the UK so they don't have to pay over 50% of their income to your tax man.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,485 posts, read 20,022,997 times
Reputation: 22422
There's way too many unnecessary obstacles placed in front of the poor and homeless today, which breeds apathy, hopelessness!

Just read the job requirements stated in the ads on Craigslist today, in General Labor alone!

But we're in a period today of excess job applicants, so employers can institute those requirements, in hopes of acquiring the perfect candidate for the job. Back in 2005, when the country was experiencing a shortage of workers, they never would have had those requirements!

I work as a CNA, back in the early 70's, when I first cam onboard working in a LTC facility, I didn't even need a CNA license, CNA training, a CPR card, a TB test, reliable transportation, fingerprints taken, a drug test (and if I had, given I occasionally smoked marijuana back then, I would have flunked!) a background check or any of the other requirements they're calling for today! Back then, I started the job and was under someone's supervision for a week, and I was then officially a CNA!

Let's see someone living on the streets today, wishing to get off the streets, duplicate what I went through!

Even working as a lowly paid security guard, go check the requirements!
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:42 AM
 
Location: England
22,252 posts, read 5,510,378 times
Reputation: 29118
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post

By the way, the reason you don't see the ultra-rich in your country is because they've all become tax exiles and fled so they don't get robbed by the huge percentages you have on the dole. I have a number of friends who spend less than three months a year in the UK so they don't have to pay over 50% of their income to your tax man.
The title of this thread is 'Homeless and Tent Cities in USA' is it not? I understand your anger. Who wants outsiders commenting on your country? I understand your point of view. By the way, the vast majority of people in England, pay an income tax rate of 20% not 50%, and that is after a considerable amount earned which is tax free. But, honestly, we're not here to talk about England. I'm not writing here to defend England, lots wrong here as well.

ABC News report. "The homeless population is now at the highest level in this country since the depression. On the average night in New York, more than 50,000 people, nearly half of them children, are now sleeping in homeless shelters."

At the same time, we are reading reports of Chelsea Clinton buying a $10 million apartment in NYC. Isn't something wrong here? Does this seem right? So many with little, and a few with everything? Americans have always admired the rich and successful. Maybe me one day is the dream. The American dream.... known all over the world.

I grew up admiring America, spent my childhood watching things like the 'Beverley Hillbillies.' I can still remember Miss Hathaway's beautiful car.... just loved America. I still do. Beautiful country, nice people to talk to, great work ethic. But something has gone badly wrong, I talk to ordinary people in America, working folks at the airport struggling to pay their way, people in Wal-mart...... there is a lot of unhappiness with things the way they are, anger at the banks, and how not a one has been punished for the misery they have caused so many. Not one sent to prison. It's not like people don't get sent there is it? Lots of poor people in jail, well over 2 million.

I don't want to say any more. The injustice is there for anyone to see. This doesn't make America any less of a great country, filled with in the main, good folks. When I visit America, I am respectful and am really happy to be there, but, as an ordinary person, I wouldn't like to live in the US. Once upon a time, it would have been a dream come true.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:57 AM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,973,553 times
Reputation: 12963
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
The title of this thread is 'Homeless and Tent Cities in USA' is it not? I understand your anger. Who wants outsiders commenting on your country? I understand your point of view. By the way, the vast majority of people in England, pay an income tax rate of 20% not 50%, and that is after a considerable amount earned which is tax free. But, honestly, we're not here to talk about England. I'm not writing here to defend England, lots wrong here as well.

ABC News report. "The homeless population is now at the highest level in this country since the depression. On the average night in New York, more than 50,000 people, nearly half of them children, are now sleeping in homeless shelters."

At the same time, we are reading reports of Chelsea Clinton buying a $10 million apartment in NYC. Isn't something wrong here? Does this seem right? So many with little, and a few with everything? Americans have always admired the rich and successful. Maybe me one day is the dream. The American dream.... known all over the world.

I grew up admiring America, spent my childhood watching things like the 'Beverley Hillbillies.' I can still remember Miss Hathaway's beautiful car.... just loved America. I still do. Beautiful country, nice people to talk to, great work ethic. But something has gone badly wrong, I talk to ordinary people in America, working folks at the airport struggling to pay their way, people in Wal-mart...... there is a lot of unhappiness with things the way they are, anger at the banks, and how not a one has been punished for the misery they have caused so many. Not one sent to prison. It's not like people don't get sent there is it? Lots of poor people in jail, well over 2 million.

I don't want to say any more. The injustice is there for anyone to see. This doesn't make America any less of a great country, filled with in the main, good folks. When I visit America, I am respectful and am really happy to be there, but, as an ordinary person, I wouldn't like to live in the US. Once upon a time, it would have been a dream come true.
There is nothing wrong with it. Not everyone can be rich. That's life. My husband and I were both born middle/lower-middle income. We worked hard, limited our family size, made smart career choices, and as a result are well into the top 5% of household incomes in the US. That doesn't mean we're wealthy. We don't live in a McMansion, we don't drive luxury cars (my husband is driving an eight year old Prius and I a four year old Matrix--hardly luxe). We both work demanding full time jobs and have part time income from freelance work.

We put 20% of our income into retirement savings, as we don't believe SS will be there for us--only for the people who didn't bother to save as it will become means tested in the future. If our taxes increased in order to give others the life we have, we'd would be in worse shape than they are.

Explain to me why we should have to cut back on retirement savings and our fairly modest lifestyle in order to pay someone else's way--particularly when that person has made a series of bad choices and obviously not learned from their mistakes. Why should we have to pay for children we didn't choose to bring into this world? Why should we have to pay to cover the expenses of people who can't afford a child and go ahead and have one anyhow? Why should we have to lower our lifestyle because a mother refuses to work an opposite shift from her husband so someone can be home with the children and collect benefits instead? We worked split shifts for years when our son was younger to keep childcare costs to a minimum. We wouldn't dream of asking for a handout for our choice. We both went through job losses, we managed. We had savings to get through the hump because we lived below our means and didn't always rush out to buy the latest greatest.

Do I believe as a society we have an obligation to care for those who are truly so disabled as to not be able to care for themselves? Of course. Do I believe that we should have an unlimited coffer from the pockets of income earners to provide for people who make bad choices and do stupid things and get themselves into a mess? No.

By the way, to address your issue with the banks. The way the media makes it seem, the big bad banks ripped people off by making them buy houses they couldn't afford. Where is the responsibility on the MORONS who signed the paperwork who HAD to have known there was no way they could afford a $500,000 home on a cashiers pay. The problem wasn't just with the banks. It was with greedy people who took loans they couldn't afford for crap they didn't need and lived beyond their means without saving a dime and going deeper and deeper into debt. I have no more sympathy for the banks than I do for the people who made STUPID choices and then defaulted. It was a two-way street. Anyone who signs a contract without reading or fully understanding what they are signing and what it will cost them deserves whatever they get--including homelessness. it's called personal responsibility, and unfortunately in this country there are far too many who want to blame everyone else but themselves for their situation.
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