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Old 11-01-2013, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
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I can't believe that somebody actually answered to my post in all seriousness

 
Old 11-01-2013, 05:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Much of East Asia has colder winters than Western Europe. The average temperature of Beijing in January is lower than -4 C, but it is about 4 C in London.

However, Asian summers are also much hotter with stronger sunshine. If people there cannot tan, their skin will burn easily.
There you go, you have answered the question yourself. The fact in Eastern Asia, summers are much hotter with much more sunshine, thus there is a need at least for some protection against sunlight arises. While in Western Europe, where winters are mild, summers are cool and there's a lot of cloud cover, thus a deficiency in "enough sunlight" needed for Vitamin D. Thus an even lighter skin tone is needed. A fact is that people whose origins are from Northern and Western are as whole more vulnerable to have skin cancer than those in Eastern and Southern Europe. Britain, especially Scotland and Ireland receive even less sunshine than Norway and Sweden. This is somewhat a valid explanation why red-heads are more prevalent in the British Isles than in Scandinavia.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,537,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
A lot of Finnish people have N type Y-chromosome.

Groups descended from Haplogroup NO (M214)
The NO haplogroup appeared ca. 35-40 ka in eastern Asia. Haplogroup N possibly originated in eastern Asia and spread both west into Siberia and north, being the most common group found in some Uralic speaking peoples. Haplogroup O is found at its highest frequency in East Asia and Southeast Asia, with lower frequencies in the South Pacific, Central Asia, and South Asia.
Yup. Here's a typical Finnish midsummer festival:


BTW, one of the most typical haplogroups in Western Europe is the haplogroup R.

"This haplogroup is believed to have arisen around 20,000-34,000 years ago (Karafet 2008), somewhere in Central Asia or South Asia, where its ancestor Haplogroup P-M45 is most often found at polymorphic frequencies (Wells 2001). The two currently defined subclades are R-M173 and R-M479. Haplogroup R-M173 is estimated to have arisen during the height of the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), about 18,500 years ago, most likely in southwestern Asia (Underhill 2009)."


Does this mean that western europeans looks like South Asians?
 
Old 11-01-2013, 06:55 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 7,727,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
A lot of Finnish people have N type Y-chromosome.

Groups descended from Haplogroup NO (M214)
The NO haplogroup appeared ca. 35-40 ka in eastern Asia. Haplogroup N possibly originated in eastern Asia and spread both west into Siberia and north, being the most common group found in some Uralic speaking peoples. Haplogroup O is found at its highest frequency in East Asia and Southeast Asia, with lower frequencies in the South Pacific, Central Asia, and South Asia.


It would be totally wrong for you to say that Finnish people are Mongoloid and actually hilarious. Finnish are by far predominantly a Northern European people more than most European countries. The Finnish group has the highest frequency of people who are blonde/light-haired, blue/gray-eyed in Europe, that is typically Northern European. Since the physical characteristic of people who combine a fair skin, blonde hair, blue or light eyes is highest in Northern Europe particularly the Baltic region of Europe and definitely not in Asia! As with other Scandinavians they are also among the palest people after Celts. The distant Siberid element which came to Europe by way of Russia brought by Saamis, other Uralic speakers was already quite Caucasoid by the time it reached Europe. This very same element is also found in other European populations in Eastern Europe. According to the Genographic Project that element is also found in the Russian, Romanian, Bulgarian poulations studied. Finnish people are not exactly Saamis either, though both their languages are Finnic There are also different subclades within the N haplogroup which differs them from those in East Asia. They are rather a blend of a predominantly very Northern European people who absorbed populations which came later from Russia, ultimately Siberia. So it is erroneous to call them Mongoloids. [/quote]
 
Old 11-01-2013, 08:58 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 7,727,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
In what part of the world, I'm totally really specific, like a city or locale not just a country, has the palest native inhabitants?

My guess would be it's probably in Scotland or something? Maybe the Hebrides?


It is actually very hard to specify a city/town like that, since people have moved around a lot. However we could point to the British Isles( especially those originally from Scotland, Ireland and northern England) since these populations have the highest frequency of people who have genes for a very pale skin, red hair and freckles which was the answer of evolution in surviving in cool, cloudy climate in order to get quickly the Vitamin D needed. For example Sweden averages daily 5.4 hours of sunshine while Scotland it is even less, 3.1 hours of daily sunshine. The darker a person's skin or the more likely it is to tan, the harder and slower it is to get Vitamin D in cool, cloudy weather with poor sunshine, this could lead to rickets, bone deformation in some infants especially to those of African, Native Australian, South Asian origin, however a rich diet of fish and drinking regularly milk will help to balance that. There is a balance in nature, while those with darker skin color have an advantage over those with pale skin in sunny weather to get Vitamin D, dark skin "ages slower" as well and are the least likely to get skin cancer due to better protection from sunlight rays. [/quote]
 
Old 11-01-2013, 09:12 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Gingers. LOL! JK.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 11:38 PM
 
6,268 posts, read 6,109,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
It would be totally wrong for you to say that Finnish people are Mongoloid and actually hilarious. Finnish are by far predominantly a Northern European people more than most European countries. The Finnish group has the highest frequency of people who are blonde/light-haired, blue/gray-eyed in Europe, that is typically Northern European. Since the physical characteristic of people who combine a fair skin, blonde hair, blue or light eyes is highest in Northern Europe particularly the Baltic region of Europe and definitely not in Asia! As with other Scandinavians they are also among the palest people after Celts. The distant Siberid element which came to Europe by way of Russia brought by Saamis, other Uralic speakers was already quite Caucasoid by the time it reached Europe. This very same element is also found in other European populations in Eastern Europe. According to the Genographic Project that element is also found in the Russian, Romanian, Bulgarian poulations studied. Finnish people are not exactly Saamis either, though both their languages are Finnic There are also different subclades within the N haplogroup which differs them from those in East Asia. They are rather a blend of a predominantly very Northern European people who absorbed populations which came later from Russia, ultimately Siberia. So it is erroneous to call them Mongoloids.
[/quote]

You made a lot of straw men.
No one says Finnish people are not Caucasoid. However, their Y-DNA reveals that they have a recent split with northeastern Asians, and it would be normal to assume some of them still share some physical features with northeastern Asians.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 11:40 PM
 
6,268 posts, read 6,109,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Yup. Here's a typical Finnish midsummer festival:


BTW, one of the most typical haplogroups in Western Europe is the haplogroup R.

"This haplogroup is believed to have arisen around 20,000-34,000 years ago (Karafet 2008), somewhere in Central Asia or South Asia, where its ancestor Haplogroup P-M45 is most often found at polymorphic frequencies (Wells 2001). The two currently defined subclades are R-M173 and R-M479. Haplogroup R-M173 is estimated to have arisen during the height of the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), about 18,500 years ago, most likely in southwestern Asia (Underhill 2009)."


Does this mean that western europeans looks like South Asians?
R type is found in parts of China too, especially northwestern China. Y-DNA does not determine physical traits directly, but indirectly implies some ancestry affinities. R does not exist in Japan and southeast Asia though.

Mongols are dominated by C and D, not N either. That is why Mongols used to be called "paleoasiatic". Chinese are dominated by O, which is closely related to N.

Last edited by Bettafish; 11-01-2013 at 11:52 PM..
 
Old 11-01-2013, 11:44 PM
 
6,268 posts, read 6,109,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
There you go, you have answered the question yourself. The fact in Eastern Asia, summers are much hotter with much more sunshine, thus there is a need at least for some protection against sunlight arises. While in Western Europe, where winters are mild, summers are cool and there's a lot of cloud cover, thus a deficiency in "enough sunlight" needed for Vitamin D. Thus an even lighter skin tone is needed. A fact is that people whose origins are from Northern and Western are as whole more vulnerable to have skin cancer than those in Eastern and Southern Europe. Britain, especially Scotland and Ireland receive even less sunshine than Norway and Sweden. This is somewhat a valid explanation why red-heads are more prevalent in the British Isles than in Scandinavia.
The major cities that have the lowest sunshine hours are not found in northern Europe, instead, they are found in southwest China.
Chongqing and Chengdu are both huge cities and their annual sunshine hours are only 1000 hours each. London has 1400.

From wikipedia:
Chengdu also has one of the lowest annual sunshine totals nationally, with less sunshine annually than much of Northern Europe, and most days are cloudy and overcast even if without rain. This is especially so in the winter months, when it is typically interminably grey and dreary, compounding the poor air quality. Spring (March–April) tends to be sunnier and warmer in the day than autumn (October–November). The annual mean is 16.14 °C (61.1 °F), and extremes have ranged from −5.9 °C (21 °F) to 40.0 °C (104.0 °F).
 
Old 11-02-2013, 12:24 AM
 
831 posts, read 2,525,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
Yeah right! Many East Asians are also known for bleaching their skin, since very white skin was very prized in Ancient Japan, Korea and China and many women still avoid getting too much in the sun in order to avoid tanning. Skin bleaching products are still very popular throughout southeast Asia, in India, in all these lands, a light or fair skin is/was highly regarded. 40% of women surveyed in Malaysia, Hong Kong, the Phillipines, South Korea use skin-whitening creams, in Asia skin whitening products is an $18 billion dollar market! Many Europeans have a pinkish-white toned skin because the skin is so pale/light, that blood vessels can be seen through. That's true sign of paleness, and also those who tan with difficulty or don't tan at all, a greater ability to get skin cancer if exposed to sunlight. That's why they are/were called whites. This is why Northern Europeans would have as a group have the highest frequency, the evolutionary lightening of skin that took place in Northern Europe was different from that which took place in East Asia. Chinese, Japan, Koreans who are probably the lightest of Asians still have a much better tanning ability than Northern Europeans as a whole. Northern Europe(British Isles, Iceland, Scandinavia, Netherlands, Belgium, northern Germany, Baltic nations, etc..) The region where the tendency for people to have red and blonde hair, blue, gray, green eyes is highest phenotypically and genetically.
Most British islanders although pale have pretty often mousy and/or dark brown hair. Central europeans like Czech people although blonder have warmer skin tones. In southern germany and even Austria there are considerably more blond people than the British Isles and specially Ireland. There is no direct correlation between hair/eye and skin color, at least not exclusively.
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