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Old 11-02-2013, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,510,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
In evolutionary anthropology, "recent" does not mean the same thing as everyday English...You got it?
Why can't you simply accept the fact that some Finnish people share the same paternal ancestry with some northeastern Asians? It is simply a fact.
I can accept that. And most haplotypes in Europe originated from Asia. Has nothing to do with appearance, tho.

 
Old 11-02-2013, 07:12 PM
 
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If talking about skin color only, ethnically pure Latvians (not a large population anymore) and a few of the nearby people have a trait where the skin is porcelain white, even though the hair is dark (with an auburn cast when seen against the light). They are distinct from Estonians and Finns who are most often light shades of taupe. I think in toto these are the whitest people. Brits have lots of very light people for reasons discussed, but some have some melanin in their skin so they lack the truly porcelain white trait seen in Letts, a trait formerly referred to as "the northeast european subrace." Interestingly, I read somewhere that Latvia (then Livonia et other names) was populated about 1500 years ago by people "from the west" but their origin is unknown. Maybe it was somewhere in Britain - before its population got mixed with Romans Spanish French and Germanic people.

Last edited by TwinbrookNine; 11-02-2013 at 07:21 PM..
 
Old 11-02-2013, 09:51 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 7,706,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler86 View Post
I didn't say austrians are scandinavians, I just said blonde hair in central/eastern europe (austria and more so southern germany, czech republic and poland) is more common than in further north parts of europe where "celtic" heritage is more common such as northern france, Ireland or UK.. There are many eastern europeans , specially polish and czech with brown/hazel eyes, very blond hair and warm skin tones. The combination of pale skin dark brown hair and blue eyes seem to be much more common among British Islanders and specially the Irish people.

Hair =/= skin
You are entitled to your own opinion. I would not refute to say that blonde hair is common in Central Europe but to say it's much more common than in Britain is another thing. In Poland/Germany/France the difference in pigmentation between their northern and southern regions is much greater than the difference between western and eastern Ireland or in Britain .Northern Germany due to the proximity to the Baltic region is originally significantly much blonde/red-haired, blue-eyed, paler-skinned than southern Germany. The difference is less pronounced in Britain/Ireland, because of its location as a whole within Northern Europe. Western Britain traditionally known to have usually higher ratios of dark hair than eastern Britain, at the same time has higher ratios of red hair. Since I do not rely on my personal opinion, rather more on recent studies done on pigmentation which I numerously wrote (GWAS 2012) comparing 4 countries which included Poland and Ireland, showed Ireland to be over-all lighter than Poland . The reason why the combination of dark brown/black hair, blue/green eyes with a very pale skin seem to be much more common among British Islanders is because as a whole to begin with they are already a paler-skinned people regardless of hair color as Northern Europeans are in general. Others have pointed this to a Celtic heritage. While the general rule in most parts of Europe, people with dark brown/black hair usually have brown/hazel eyes and much warmer skin tones than those with blonde hair. Nevertheless the majority of Irish have brown hair and not specifically dark brown. Another important aspect pointed by the study that within groups shows that Irish males were much darker-haired than Irish females, while the difference between Polish males and females was not great. Since anyway, there is great genetic tendency for Irish/British people to have red hair, this would also give them a greater tendency for a paler skin which is more sensitive to UV rays regardless of hair color.
 
Old 11-02-2013, 10:25 PM
 
831 posts, read 2,520,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
You are entitled to your own opinion. I would not refute to say that blonde hair is common in Central Europe but to say it's much more common than in Britain is another thing. In Poland/Germany/France the difference in pigmentation between their northern and southern regions is much greater than the difference between western and eastern Ireland or in Britain .Northern Germany due to the proximity to the Baltic region is originally significantly much blonde/red-haired, blue-eyed, paler-skinned than southern Germany. The difference is less pronounced in Britain/Ireland, because of its location as a whole within Northern Europe. Western Britain traditionally known to have usually higher ratios of dark hair than eastern Britain, at the same time has higher ratios of red hair. Since I do not rely on my personal opinion, rather more on recent studies done on pigmentation which I numerously wrote (GWAS 2012) comparing 4 countries which included Poland and Ireland, showed Ireland to be over-all lighter than Poland . The reason why the combination of dark brown/black hair, blue/green eyes with a very pale skin seem to be much more common among British Islanders is because as a whole to begin with they are already a paler-skinned people regardless of hair color as Northern Europeans are in general. Others have pointed this to a Celtic heritage. While the general rule in most parts of Europe, people with dark brown/black hair usually have brown/hazel eyes and much warmer skin tones than those with blonde hair. Nevertheless the majority of Irish have brown hair and not specifically dark brown. Another important aspect pointed by the study that within groups shows that Irish males were much darker-haired than Irish females, while the difference between Polish males and females was not great. Since anyway, there is great genetic tendency for Irish/British people to have red hair, this would also give them a greater tendency for a paler skin which is more sensitive to UV rays regardless of hair color.
And pale skin observed is not always a good indicator, because It depends how It adapts to different climate. What you have to measure is the skin color reflectance which truly measure skin color.

This stude of skin color reflectance points out how dutch followed by northern germans are the lightest skinned western european populations, more so than the brits or the irish groups.

 
Old 11-03-2013, 01:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler86 View Post
And pale skin observed is not always a good indicator, because It depends how It adapts to different climate. What you have to measure is the skin color reflectance which truly measure skin color.

This stude of skin color reflectance points out how dutch followed by northern germans are the lightest skinned western european populations, more so than the brits or the irish groups.
Interesting study there but it is on skin reflectance and on untanned skin. It does not show a population's capacity to tan though. You could have a group of people with the same skin tone originally but some will go dark brown in the sun and others won't tan. The capacity to tan shows how much melanin there is in the skin.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 01:22 AM
 
4,690 posts, read 7,706,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler86 View Post
And pale skin observed is not always a good indicator, because It depends how It adapts to different climate. What you have to measure is the skin color reflectance which truly measure skin color.

This stude of skin color reflectance points out how dutch followed by northern germans are the lightest skinned western european populations, more so than the brits or the irish groups.
You need to be updated, science progresses that's old school. I'm very well acquainted with that study, actually in that same study which to today standards and what we know is "archaic", the were U.K. series lighter than the Netherlands one. Nevertheless Jablonski the author of that study recently made a statement as to that fairest-skinned are those who have the lowest melanin content especially those who tends to high freckling. Since you don't know much let me enlighten you, skin reflectance is not always a good indicator of fair skin. A Mediterranean/East Asian person may have a fair skin in the winter time, however when exposed to the summer sunlight they tan to a light brown. Northern Germans are pale, but not the palest Europeans, sorry. (maybe according to Gobineau's theories).The Dutch are lighter than the Germans as a whole. The fairest skins in Europe, are found at the edge of Northwestern Europe with the red-headed Northern Europeans as the lightest and the most likely to have a skin which is most vulnerable to sunlight. Dermatological studies in so many European languages which are more advanced and more precise than a mere skin reflectance study point that the palest groups is firstly the Celtic(Scotland and Ireland especially) and that of Scandinavia. Since these people have highest risk of developing skin cancer due to their very fair skin which is very low in pigment. I've posted so many studies to prove that point. Studies also done by Bataille on various European Union nations which I've already posted also show again the U.K.(Royaume Uni in French) to have the highest ratio of skin type I in comparison to the Netherlands, Sweden, France and Belgium. This was published in May 2005. "Celtic skin" is also synonymous for "very white or very pale" skin FYI.

As this pale Scottish woman.
Redirect Notice



I
 
Old 11-03-2013, 02:09 PM
 
831 posts, read 2,520,697 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
You need to be updated, science progresses that's old school. I'm very well acquainted with that study, actually in that same study which to today standards and what we know is "archaic", the were U.K. series lighter than the Netherlands one. Nevertheless Jablonski the author of that study recently made a statement as to that fairest-skinned are those who have the lowest melanin content especially those who tends to high freckling. Since you don't know much let me enlighten you, skin reflectance is not always a good indicator of fair skin. A Mediterranean/East Asian person may have a fair skin in the winter time, however when exposed to the summer sunlight they tan to a light brown. Northern Germans are pale, but not the palest Europeans, sorry. (maybe according to Gobineau's theories).The Dutch are lighter than the Germans as a whole. The fairest skins in Europe, are found at the edge of Northwestern Europe with the red-headed Northern Europeans as the lightest and the most likely to have a skin which is most vulnerable to sunlight. Dermatological studies in so many European languages which are more advanced and more precise than a mere skin reflectance study point that the palest groups is firstly the Celtic(Scotland and Ireland especially) and that of Scandinavia. Since these people have highest risk of developing skin cancer due to their very fair skin which is very low in pigment. I've posted so many studies to prove that point. Studies also done by Bataille on various European Union nations which I've already posted also show again the U.K.(Royaume Uni in French) to have the highest ratio of skin type I in comparison to the Netherlands, Sweden, France and Belgium. This was published in May 2005. "Celtic skin" is also synonymous for "very white or very pale" skin FYI.

As this pale Scottish woman.
Redirect Notice



I
Most scotish and irish aren't redhead hence they dont have that exact skintone..

typical Irish pigmentation:

http://www.stjosephscrossmaglen.com/...3/Feis%201.jpg
 
Old 11-03-2013, 07:01 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,770,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler86 View Post
Most scotish and irish aren't redhead hence they dont have that exact skintone..

typical Irish pigmentation:

http://www.stjosephscrossmaglen.com/...3/Feis%201.jpg
That is fairly accurate showing that most Irish are brown haired and fair skinned even in that picture there are some redheads. What are we disagreeing with here? And they don't look Southern European.
 
Old 11-04-2013, 07:27 AM
 
1,661 posts, read 1,871,379 times
Reputation: 2119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler86 View Post
Most scotish and irish aren't redhead hence they dont have that exact skintone..

typical Irish pigmentation:

http://www.stjosephscrossmaglen.com/...3/Feis%201.jpg
Those folks are ghost white
 
Old 11-05-2013, 04:51 PM
 
831 posts, read 2,520,697 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
That is fairly accurate showing that most Irish are brown haired and fair skinned even in that picture there are some redheads. What are we disagreeing with here? And they don't look Southern European.

Their skin doesnt look gosht-like pale to claim they are actually paler than other europeans (northern/central/eastern europeans at least).
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