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I don't see myself living in an anglo culture, from my experience people in english speaking countries obsess too much over money, race, religion, lots of obesity, inequality, lack of culture, suburban living.
I think id kill myself in australia, it'd be like living in the America but a lot less people around you
I'd never live in Sydney. I could live in the Bay area, though.
Spoken like a true Melbournian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd
I don't see myself living in an anglo culture, from my experience people in english speaking countries obsess too much over money, race, religion, lots of obesity, inequality, lack of culture, suburban living.
I think id kill myself in australia, it'd be like living in the America but a lot less people around you
I wouldn't say "Old World". I think San Francisco is distinctly American, albeit in a special way. Generally speaking Sydney looks more European to me.
I wouldn't say "Old World". I think San Francisco is distinctly American, albeit in a special way. Generally speaking Sydney looks more European to me.
The few parts of inner, habour-side Sydney that date back to the late 1700s or early 1800s do have an "aged" or "world of yesterday" ambiance to them, which is I suppose how most folk from Aus or the US generally perceive Europe. So yes, they date from a era that aligns with a somewhat romanticised, New World perspective of what it means to be "European". But in themselves "European"? No; I've never had a sense of being in a "European" locale as I've walked through those streets and allies.
I have lived in both cities and have lived in SF for four years, I currently live in SF.
WHERE SYDNEY IS BETTER:
Cleanliness: Sydney is far, far, far cleaner and has far fewer social problems. Most of the social problems in San Francisco are due to a permissive culture that has allowed it to inherit the problems created by the political decisions made in the rest of the US (Federally and by other States) rather than being "self generated". These social issues have created a fifthly city, the streets are full of litter and human feces (there is even a human feces map of SF [url=http://mochimachine.org/wasteland/](Human) Wasteland[/url]), and many of the parks and open areas are not maintained at all. Generally Sydney is clean and well maintained.
Weather/environmental quality: Sydney has years where it has a fair bit of rain (usually we have about 8-12 year no-low rain, then 4-8 of lots of rain). It does get smoking hot in Sydney mid summer some years (this last summer hit 46C in western Sydney - that is ~ 115 F), so if you hate hot weather, SF is cooler, more consistent and temperate. Compared to San Francisco Sydney is significantly warmer, has much more sunshine and far less air and water pollution. There are 5 oil refineries in the Bay area and while the clean air Act has made significant improvements, that is relative, because the air quality in California used to be so terrible. Californians are rightly proud of their regulations, as they have created a strong economy and cleaned up their environmental act. However, the combination of oil refineries, raised freeways, topography and HUGE number of cars on the road means the air quality is still horrendous compared to Sydney (on a scale of 1-100 Sydney's peak average AQI - in the center of the city where is is the WORST - is well under 30 and it is over 50 for the whole bay area). The fog in San Francisco means you basically don't get a summer and the best beaches in California are not even in the same league as NSW (Sydney) beaches, not close, not even a little bit.
Property: Sydney house purchase prices and SF prices are about on par, though rental prices are FAR higher in SF - I pay about $300 less per month for my ONE bedroom apartment in SF as I get from my tenants in Sydney for a three bedroom house (similar neighborhood and locational desirability - your protections as a tenant are higher in SF, but you pay for them). Salaries for skilled workers outside the tech and finance industry are higher in Sydney, but for those in tech and finance in SF salaries and equity can make you rich quick - the sky is the limit in those fields right now in SF.
Public transport: Both cities have decent but patchy coverage for public transport - I would say they are is similar in service range and frequency (perhaps a better range in Sydney and higher frequency in SF). San Francisco does a great job of running a decent public transport system on outdated infrastructure. However, Sydney trains, buses and ferries are clean, newer, safe and well maintained, where as SF transport is mostly filthy, smelly and it is not very safe to use late at night.
Cafes and restaurants/cuisine: SF has some great food, and funky places, but it is WAY under serviced and waiting for a table for an hour or two is normal. Mexican food is WAY better in SF and Asian food is better in Sydney. Breakfast, brunch and day time cafe culture is pretty ordinary in SF. Breakfast and brunch and cafes are an institution in Sydney and it is great almost anywhere you go. In my opinion, LA is better than either city for heathy and diverse cuisine.
Coffee: The BEST coffee in both cities is on par (Sydney perhaps a nose ahead), but an average coffee in San Francisco is barely tolerable. Melbourne rocks out on either city for cafes and coffee, but, Sydney cafes and coffee average is still miles ahead of SF.
Health care and public service: This goes without saying, health care in the US/SF is awesome if you have money or a good plan through an employer. In that case, you get over serviced and your insurer pays many times more than was needed for the problem you wanted to fix (or didn't really have in the first place). If you don't, well good luck to you, especially if the ACA gets killed by Trump. If you need medical attention, unless you are employed and have a good plan or are minted, Sydney is a better spot to be. While SF has some great programs for those struggling economically, they seem like they don't work well enough (the problem is HUGE - so all power to you and keep trying). Government service organizations seem like a total disaster, the DMV, and social security are so poorly serviced it is astounding they work at all. The Australian equivalent, RTA and centerlink are also not the best places to be, and they deal with far less complexity, however, the difference in quality or service, ease of accessing information and manors of service professionals could not be more in contrast.
Safety: SF is statistically is far less safe than Sydney. Property, violent crime and murder rates are far higher in SF than Sydney. Surprisingly, I do feel comfortable and safe in pretty sketchy places in SF most of the time, and it looks far worse than it feels when you get used to it.
Generally: The quality of life in Sydney for middle and lower income people is much higher and the public institutions work more efficiently and effectively.
WHERE SAN FRANCISCO IS BETTER
If you are wealthy, well educated and part of the bubble you can do exciting, world leading work and live a great, over-indulged life in San Francisco. Almost everyone you meet is doing something phenomenal, has an amazing life story and is welcoming, kind and inclusive. I could not imagine a city where people were more accepting or non-judgemental. Sydney has shades of this, but it is not in the same league of the SF bubble!
However, while San Franciscans don't judge, there is so much homelessness and helplessness in SF that people walk by people in need at every level (including need of immediate medical attention) and do not stop. So, no judgement, but, no help either.
In summary, San Francisco is probably more interesting and is a good place to live if you are young and wealthy and at the peak of your career. The entry bar due to rental prices in SF is SO high, you cannot live here on a salary under $100K, and even at that you will be struggling unless you are in a rent controlled unit. Sydney is cleaner, brighter and easier to live in and while rental prices are high in Sydney, SF rental is in a league of its own!
Oh my gosh, Sydney by so effing far for me, this is not even a real contest to me.
San Francisco is the second best city and anchors the second best metropolis in all of the United States after New York and Greater New York as far as I'm concerned, but I'm just way more into Sydney, like infinitely more. If you showed me pictures and videos and talked to me about Sydney, you'd see my eyes light up and we'd be talking all day. If you did the same with San Francisco, I'd likely just fall asleep, ignore you, or get up and walk away. I'm not even into San Francisco, I would have been had it not been so consumed with mindboggling congestion and traffic, a boring and borderline horrible nightlife scene, which boil my nerves just thinking about it. San Francisco has the worst congestion problem in America, never felt anything worse than that. Doesn't even make sense, it isn't even the biggest or densest or most structurally dense city in America and exhibits problems of a global megacity without actually having real megacity size to it. It is like it comes in layers of hellish congestion too.
Had it not been for those impediments and maybe a few other minor things, I'd be all for San Francisco, not over Sydney to be sure but I would be more positive on San Francisco than I am now. Definitely not over Sydney, but would be a bigger proponent for the city than I currently am. Ahhh, I still view it as California's true dynamo from a power and prestige point of view. So me giving it some credit has to count for something, right?
I accidentally voted for San Francisco, Sydney all the way for me and then some. Can't emphasize that enough, again, by so so far, like so far, you wont even believe.
Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 03-01-2017 at 03:39 PM..
I lived in SF bay area for 10 years and have been living in Sydney for 3 years ( and I have also lived in Vienna, EU, for MANY years). In my UNBIASED opinion and as someone who actually has LIVED in these 2 places, unlike MOST who have commented, I find Sydney to be a FAR better city and Australia a far batter country to live in. I list my reasons:
1- Sydney has AWESOME world heritage mind blowing beaches.
2- Sydney's weather is FAR FAR FAR better than SF bay area in ANY season. At night, you can actually go without a top for like 9 months a year and not freeze to death sitting outdoors etc
3- Sydney's people are MUCH more friendly and genuine
4- Sydney's crowd are less dorky and are FAR MORE beautiful and stylish than bay area crowd, Yes it does matter, aesthetics is a big deal to many people.
5- You barely ever see homeless people in Sydney...I actually fear for my life during the day in parts of SF, something I have never felt anywhere in Australia
6- All school children are in gorgeous uniforms and LOOK LIKE students, unlike bay area or American schools kids who look like hookers, losers, etc , all showing their ugly bums and undies....plus they are OBESE and RUDE and FULL OF IT
7-Roads are horrible in bay area SF
8- Transportation is flawless in Sydney...in SF, it pretty much doesn't exist for 90% of people in the area. Taxis are also hard to find in bay area. I have lived in 3 different locations including fancy suburbs of Sydney and never had problem using public transport to go anywhere in Sydney
9- FOODDDDD in Sydney is FAR FAR FAR BETTER...including tax and tip of USA, Sydney's food is actually cheaper and MUCH HIGHER in quality, plus healthy choices are infinity and food just tastes GREAT in Sydney...of ANY cuisine I have tried, I was blown away
10- Did I mention coffee? Australia is a SERIOUS COFFEE country....much more serious than anywhere in EU or Italy....Aussies come to me and say, omg, we all switch to tea traveling in USA....that's smart, Americans don't even know what coffee really should taste like...tea is also garbage in USA....
11-Social services are AWSOME, health care is AWSOME....as a parent, I get so much benefit living in Australia is unbelievable...in US, parents get NOTHING...No one gets anything pretty much
12- Flora and Fauna of Australia is just something you have to see for yourself. I cannot put it in words. bay area is a joke as well in that comparison
13- To sum it up, Australia is THE PERFECT country, not only for humans, but also for animals, plants, you name it. It's just the little utopia on earth that is luckily so far away from the rest of the ****ed up world. I hope it stays that way.
14- In EVERY job I have checked, Australian salaries are about 20k-30k higher. Tax for middle income people isn't actually that much higher than it is in USA, including the benefits, American middle class lose BIG in comparison when it come to taxes....plus MINIMUM WAGE is $16. And Aussie dollar is usually higher than American $ or it's about the same....I LOVE it than I am served by beuatiful young Europeans who are paid at least $20 to work plus benefits, instead of poor illegal Mexicans who may or may not be paid faily....It makes me feel much less guilty actually
everything here is anti-American falsehoods; we have (including the bay area) beautiful people, streets, world class food, jobs, and wealth
I love Sydney but i would choose SF because of its location. SF is close to several national parks, easy access to other american and international destination and closer to my parents and friends
Sydney seems great, but SF seems to be more vibrant and with more going on in general. It also seems quite a bit less isolated.
Over three years later and I'm switching over to Sydney.
Sydney was a far more bustling city than I expected. Plus, the general area is surrounded by a wealth of natural beauty and taking the train to hike out in the Blue Mountains or to the beach communities and having that be available to you is enviable. The city as a whole is far sleeker and seemingly modern than San Francisco.
San Francisco is fine, but it's a notch below Sydney for me.
I lived in SF bay area for 10 years and have been living in Sydney for 3 years ( and I have also lived in Vienna, EU, for MANY years). In my UNBIASED opinion and as someone who actually has LIVED in these 2 places, unlike MOST who have commented, I find Sydney to be a FAR better city and Australia a far batter country to live in. I list my reasons:
1- Sydney has AWESOME world heritage mind blowing beaches. Yes, but the outdoors available withing a couple of hours drive from SF is way better than anything in Australia.
2- Sydney's weather is FAR FAR FAR better than SF bay area in ANY season. At night, you can actually go without a top for like 9 months a year and not freeze to death sitting outdoors etc Weather in Sydney is borderline uncomfortable.
3- Sydney's people are MUCH more friendly and genuine Depends...Both are large cities with a diverse crowd
4- Sydney's crowd are less dorky and are FAR MORE beautiful and stylish than bay area crowd, Yes it does matter, aesthetics is a big deal to many people. Very True
5- You barely ever see homeless people in Sydney...I actually fear for my life during the day in parts of SF, something I have never felt anywhere in Australia True again.
6- All school children are in gorgeous uniforms and LOOK LIKE students, unlike bay area or American schools kids who look like hookers, losers, etc , all showing their ugly bums and undies....plus they are OBESE and RUDE and FULL OF IT Not true
7-Roads are horrible in bay area SF Some are bad but Sydney is not a walk in the park when it comes to flawless roads
8- Transportation is flawless in Sydney...in SF, it pretty much doesn't exist for 90% of people in the area. Taxis are also hard to find in bay area. I have lived in 3 different locations including fancy suburbs of Sydney and never had problem using public transport to go anywhere in Sydney Disagree, the only city with decent transportation in Australia is Melbourne
9- FOODDDDD in Sydney is FAR FAR FAR BETTER...including tax and tip of USA, Sydney's food is actually cheaper and MUCH HIGHER in quality, plus healthy choices are infinity and food just tastes GREAT in Sydney...of ANY cuisine I have tried, I was blown away That's your personal taste, plenty of amazing restaurants
10- Did I mention coffee? Australia is a SERIOUS COFFEE country....much more serious than anywhere in EU or Italy....Aussies come to me and say, omg, we all switch to tea traveling in USA....that's smart, Americans don't even know what coffee really should taste like...tea is also garbage in USA.... Melbourne is the place to go for coffee
11-Social services are AWSOME, health care is AWSOME....as a parent, I get so much benefit living in Australia is unbelievable...in US, parents get NOTHING...No one gets anything pretty much Can't comment on that.
12- Flora and Fauna of Australia is just something you have to see for yourself. I cannot put it in words. bay area is a joke as well in that comparison You comparing Australia to the Bay Area??
13- To sum it up, Australia is THE PERFECT country, not only for humans, but also for animals, plants, you name it. It's just the little utopia on earth that is luckily so far away from the rest of the ****ed up world. I hope it stays that way. You probably wrote that after two joints
14- In EVERY job I have checked, Australian salaries are about 20k-30k higher. Tax for middle income people isn't actually that much higher than it is in USA, including the benefits, American middle class lose BIG in comparison when it come to taxes....plus MINIMUM WAGE is $16. And Aussie dollar is usually higher than American $ or it's about the same....I LOVE it than I am served by beuatiful young Europeans who are paid at least $20 to work plus benefits, instead of poor illegal Mexicans who may or may not be paid faily....It makes me feel much less guilty actually now you've probably smoked 5 joints
Good write up, except for the excessive "anti-US" hate speech.
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