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View Poll Results: ????
San Francisco 57 54.29%
Sydney 48 45.71%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-03-2017, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post

San Francisco is fine, but it's a notch below Sydney for me.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Over three years later and I'm switching over to Sydney.
You've transitioned over the the right side my friend. Sydney is actually a fun city, especially at night, to be out in.
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Old 03-04-2017, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,703 posts, read 34,718,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilary1 View Post
I have lived in both cities and have lived in SF for four years, I currently live in SF.

WHERE SYDNEY IS BETTER:
Cleanliness: Sydney is far, far, far cleaner and has far fewer social problems. Most of the social problems in San Francisco are due to a permissive culture that has allowed it to inherit the problems created by the political decisions made in the rest of the US (Federally and by other States) rather than being "self generated". These social issues have created a fifthly city, the streets are full of litter and human feces (there is even a human feces map of SF (Human) Wasteland), and many of the parks and open areas are not maintained at all. Generally Sydney is clean and well maintained.

Weather/environmental quality: Sydney has years where it has a fair bit of rain (usually we have about 8-12 year no-low rain, then 4-8 of lots of rain). It does get smoking hot in Sydney mid summer some years (this last summer hit 46C in western Sydney - that is ~ 115 F), so if you hate hot weather, SF is cooler, more consistent and temperate. Compared to San Francisco Sydney is significantly warmer, has much more sunshine and far less air and water pollution. There are 5 oil refineries in the Bay area and while the clean air Act has made significant improvements, that is relative, because the air quality in California used to be so terrible. Californians are rightly proud of their regulations, as they have created a strong economy and cleaned up their environmental act. However, the combination of oil refineries, raised freeways, topography and HUGE number of cars on the road means the air quality is still horrendous compared to Sydney (on a scale of 1-100 Sydney's peak average AQI - in the center of the city where is is the WORST - is well under 30 and it is over 50 for the whole bay area). The fog in San Francisco means you basically don't get a summer and the best beaches in California are not even in the same league as NSW (Sydney) beaches, not close, not even a little bit.

Property: Sydney house purchase prices and SF prices are about on par, though rental prices are FAR higher in SF - I pay about $300 less per month for my ONE bedroom apartment in SF as I get from my tenants in Sydney for a three bedroom house (similar neighborhood and locational desirability - your protections as a tenant are higher in SF, but you pay for them). Salaries for skilled workers outside the tech and finance industry are higher in Sydney, but for those in tech and finance in SF salaries and equity can make you rich quick - the sky is the limit in those fields right now in SF.

Public transport: Both cities have decent but patchy coverage for public transport - I would say they are is similar in service range and frequency (perhaps a better range in Sydney and higher frequency in SF). San Francisco does a great job of running a decent public transport system on outdated infrastructure. However, Sydney trains, buses and ferries are clean, newer, safe and well maintained, where as SF transport is mostly filthy, smelly and it is not very safe to use late at night.

Cafes and restaurants/cuisine: SF has some great food, and funky places, but it is WAY under serviced and waiting for a table for an hour or two is normal. Mexican food is WAY better in SF and Asian food is better in Sydney. Breakfast, brunch and day time cafe culture is pretty ordinary in SF. Breakfast and brunch and cafes are an institution in Sydney and it is great almost anywhere you go. In my opinion, LA is better than either city for heathy and diverse cuisine.

Coffee: The BEST coffee in both cities is on par (Sydney perhaps a nose ahead), but an average coffee in San Francisco is barely tolerable. Melbourne rocks out on either city for cafes and coffee, but, Sydney cafes and coffee average is still miles ahead of SF.

Health care and public service: This goes without saying, health care in the US/SF is awesome if you have money or a good plan through an employer. In that case, you get over serviced and your insurer pays many times more than was needed for the problem you wanted to fix (or didn't really have in the first place). If you don't, well good luck to you, especially if the ACA gets killed by Trump. If you need medical attention, unless you are employed and have a good plan or are minted, Sydney is a better spot to be. While SF has some great programs for those struggling economically, they seem like they don't work well enough (the problem is HUGE - so all power to you and keep trying). Government service organizations seem like a total disaster, the DMV, and social security are so poorly serviced it is astounding they work at all. The Australian equivalent, RTA and centerlink are also not the best places to be, and they deal with far less complexity, however, the difference in quality or service, ease of accessing information and manors of service professionals could not be more in contrast.

Safety: SF is statistically is far less safe than Sydney. Property, violent crime and murder rates are far higher in SF than Sydney. Surprisingly, I do feel comfortable and safe in pretty sketchy places in SF most of the time, and it looks far worse than it feels when you get used to it.

Generally: The quality of life in Sydney for middle and lower income people is much higher and the public institutions work more efficiently and effectively.

WHERE SAN FRANCISCO IS BETTER
If you are wealthy, well educated and part of the bubble you can do exciting, world leading work and live a great, over-indulged life in San Francisco. Almost everyone you meet is doing something phenomenal, has an amazing life story and is welcoming, kind and inclusive. I could not imagine a city where people were more accepting or non-judgemental. Sydney has shades of this, but it is not in the same league of the SF bubble!

However, while San Franciscans don't judge, there is so much homelessness and helplessness in SF that people walk by people in need at every level (including need of immediate medical attention) and do not stop. So, no judgement, but, no help either.

In summary, San Francisco is probably more interesting and is a good place to live if you are young and wealthy and at the peak of your career. The entry bar due to rental prices in SF is SO high, you cannot live here on a salary under $100K, and even at that you will be struggling unless you are in a rent controlled unit. Sydney is cleaner, brighter and easier to live in and while rental prices are high in Sydney, SF rental is in a league of its own!
THis is fantastic. I lived in San Francisco, and everything you mentioned is exactly spot-on. I thought I would live in San Francisco forever, but a year later, I found that I just didn't click with the city at all, mostly because of the enormous disparity of wealth. I didn't really have a place for myself, as someone who wasn't homeless nor uber-wealthy.

I visited Sydney last year, and loved it so much, I immediately went back a second time. If I had a chance to live in Sydney, I would absolutely jump at the chance. I have no desire to live in San Francisco again, and even if I had the money to do so, I'd choose somewhere else, like Sydney, for example.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,585 posts, read 53,140,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilary1 View Post
WHERE SAN FRANCISCO IS BETTER
If you are wealthy, well educated and part of the bubble you can do exciting, world leading work and live a great, over-indulged life in San Francisco. Almost everyone you meet is doing something phenomenal, has an amazing life story and is welcoming, kind and inclusive. I could not imagine a city where people were more accepting or non-judgemental. Sydney has shades of this, but it is not in the same league of the SF bubble!
Have to ditto this^

Similarly, in my experience, Sydney people are WAYYYYY more conscious of fashion brand names than people in the Bay Area-my relatives come here and go straight to my closet( not kidding) to see what fits them and they love to drop the brand name they are wearing-this translates to car brands, eyewear, cosmetics, luggage & handbags etc.

People in SF dont do that.

Quote:
However, while San Franciscans don't judge, there is so much homelessness and helplessness in SF that people walk by people in need at every level (including need of immediate medical attention) and do not stop. So, no judgement, but, no help either.
True but we pay all these taxes---why isnt the city doing their job?

Quote:
In summary, San Francisco is probably more interesting and is a good place to live if you are young and wealthy and at the peak of your career. The entry bar due to rental prices in SF is SO high, you cannot live here on a salary under $100K, and even at that you will be struggling unless you are in a rent controlled unit. Sydney is cleaner, brighter and easier to live in and while rental prices are high in Sydney, SF rental is in a league of its own!
I love Sydney too tho...

But not more than The Bay.
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