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Old 03-07-2013, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
3,839 posts, read 3,804,391 times
Reputation: 6441

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Remember Chavez before he got ill? He was borderline morbidly obese, men like that rarely live past about 62, so why the need to give him cancer? His diet and poor lifestyle was sure to do that (and it did).
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:49 AM
 
233 posts, read 306,206 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by George & Bill View Post
I don't think anyone has said he is a saint. Those who have defended him have been at pains to acknowledge his failings of policy and personality, and his authoritarian tendency. It is, without wanting to be too unkind, dinosaurs like yourself who bring down the quality of the discussion by baselessly referring to Chavez as a 'dictator', when his election victories were endorsed by the international community. It seems a bit counter-productive to undermine your credibility by repeating childish lies, when there are plenty of legitimate lines of criticism that you could pursue.

Well, not really...his election victories were framed, a "pucherazo", international observers were handpicked and bribed. If any international observer complained, he was hastily removed... Now you are going to say, "those international observers were from serious countries"...and I'll answer than the second biggest oil reserve in the world can make a kangoroo pass for a hamster...

All European countries are packed with opinion makers that are "admirers" of Chavez, of course, they know the truth..but they received lots of "gifts"...Read Yogurta.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,537 posts, read 22,096,691 times
Reputation: 10544
Quote:
Originally Posted by George & Bill View Post
AFAIK, there had not been a Jewish-backed military coup in Spain, or indeed elsewhere in Europe, in the years leading up to Franco's ascension to power
Well, he's in agreement with you since he's saying that there wasn't one.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:55 AM
 
233 posts, read 306,206 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
i dont have access to spanish media and cant speak spanish so i will have to take your word for it but chavez was regulary refered to as a dictator by fox news etc despite failing this criteria according to the dictionary definition of the word dictator , funny how ive never heard fox news refer to the ruling prince of saudi arabia as a dictator , you would think those pics of bush holding the princes hand would have been an opportune moment

spain is not a world power so its demonisation of chavez was much less relevant

Spain never demonised Chavez, even if everybody knows he's a dictator, because of interests. Spain is the second or third investor in Venezuela, and Spanish nationals have been affected by expropiations..but of course, all those Spanish and foreign companies are hostages.

Yes, he's a dictator since elections were framed.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:01 PM
 
233 posts, read 306,206 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by George & Bill View Post
AFAIK, there had not been a Jewish-backed military coup in Spain, or indeed elsewhere in Europe, in the years leading up to Franco's ascension to power

Jewish backed? Franco's uprising was backed by Mussolini and Hitler....but Jews in Spanish Marroco supported the uprising. Franco's antisemitism was just gestuality, in fact he protected them and some say he came from a Jewish lineage.

You are probably referring to Leon Blum in France.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:04 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
294 posts, read 589,835 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by George & Bill View Post
Sorry but while there are many lines of legitimate criticism to be pursued against Chavez, you just come across as a spoiled and embittered member of a formerly pampered class. 'Made the "effort" to attend college', indeed - this sort of thing is the eternal mantra of those desperate to believe that poverty exists merely for want of a bit of effort on the part of the poor. You come across as incredibly blinkered and self-serving.
No need for offensive remarks! We can agree to disagree or otherwise, but the animosity and name calling attitude is completely unnecessary. Needless to say, you don't even know me so; how can you be so sure that I'm an embittered member of a pampered class? Hopefully your next response will be a bit more mature.

With that said, the reason why I said "made the effort to attend college" is because in Venezuela higher education is absolutely and completely free. I know this because I went to "La Universidad de Carabobo" in the city of Valencia. Transportation to the faculty is also free. You can actually see the buses running all over the city picking up students to the main faculty. Meal and housing are subsidized. All in all, we have always had the tools to have a shot at success or upward social movility. I, for one, came from a very humble background of farmers from Estado Yaracuy, a State not far from the city of Caracas.

Look, Venezuela has always been a socialist country since the inception of Democracy back in 1958 during the Perez Jimenez administration. Our country, if you will, is a nation that caters its population from craddle to grave. People talk about how Chavez gave free housing to the poor when in reality we have always enjoyed of those benefits. Don't believe me? Google Inavi or Instituto Nacional de Vivienda y Habitat. This Government agency was created in 1975 to provide subsized housing to the poor like in our case. Gasoline has been also subsized for decades as it is in the case of food and other items of necessity. My point is that Chavez was riding a propaganda focus based on a pletora of social benefits that we already had.

There is always two sides of the story and then the truth. A short trip to the country will show you a bit of that reality or truth that most foreigners, understandably so, are lacking.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:26 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
294 posts, read 589,835 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
i dont have access to spanish media and cant speak spanish so i will have to take your word for it but chavez was regulary refered to as a dictator by fox news etc despite failing this criteria according to the dictionary definition of the word dictator , funny how ive never heard fox news refer to the ruling prince of saudi arabia as a dictator , you would think those pics of bush holding the princes hand would have been an opportune moment

spain is not a world power so its demonisation of chavez was much less relevant
Google "El Carabobeńo" or "El Nacional" to access Venezuelan media. I believe that "El Nacional" has an English translated page so that will help. He is a dictator indeed dressed up in a democratic flag. When you nationalize private property (not foreing companies-but Venezuelan as well), seize the opposition media (whether they say the truth or not), control the local markets, and make your opponents disappear; then you have earned that adjective. Try to isolate what happens in Venezuela( and I know this will be taken out of context) from the chaotic U.S. foreign policy for a moment and see the issue from an internal perspective. There are a lot of cultural nuances that take place, but don't get mentioned in the mainstream media.

The fact that Spain is not a world power does not dimish its long standing influence in Venezuela. Chavez's Government has had a long battle against "Banco Santander". You can Google that and see who the board of directors are and their close relationship with the Spanish Royalty. Additionally, you are dismissing that in Chavez's class struggle; he made it a point to create a race division by dividing the Venezuelans from European descent (non mixed) and the Venezuelans from African and indigeneous descent (Mulatos & Zambos). Also you have to take into consideration that his main political figure was Simon Bolivar who made the emancipation from Spain possible. So there is a long history of class and race division that he, as I said before, created and emphazied for his own gain. The irony of it all is that Simon Bolivar was a Spaniard born Venezuela..similar to the founding fathers in the U.S. But the ignorant and brainwashed crowd loyal to Chavez don't bother putting two and two together.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
597 posts, read 1,135,649 times
Reputation: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
what do you think about all this? They just said it on national venezuela tv and its all over the news here in Argentina, couldnt find the link in english, but many in spanish: Maduro: "Hubo una conspiración internacional para enfermar a Chávez"

they say theres gonna be an investigation to prove what they think: that a US embassy civil server, injected cancer to Hugo Chavez

what do u think about all this?
I dont think its possible at all to inject cancer on someone, but hey, the venezuelan governors seem pretty convinced

what do u think?
I don't know.
"[i]There are more things in heaven and earth, than are dreamt of "our" philosophy"[/I
(Shakespeare)
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:14 PM
 
1,487 posts, read 2,003,607 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAZILIAN View Post
I don't know.
"[i]There are more things in heaven and earth, than are dreamt of "our" philosophy"[/I
(Shakespeare)
I don't know either but the concepts of Manifest Destiny and the Monroe Doctrine have certainly not endeared us in Latin America and considering our constant meddling in the affairs of other American nations I certainly can't blame those nations for being uncomfortable with the US at the least. Will we ever learn?
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,621 posts, read 12,894,493 times
Reputation: 11171
I wonder if the US gov't gave this guy cancer?



... or this guy...?



Point being that yes: famous, wealthy, powerful, and influential people die of cancer, too. Sucks, but, it happens.

Of course there are going to be conspiracies about Chavez being "given" cancer (made cancerous?) by the US government; but let's think about it logically: what does the US Gov't have to gain by killing him? Pretty much nothing. What do they have to lose from killing him, if it's proven they did? Tons. No one would want to stay buddy-buddy with us after that.
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