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It's interesting that Melbourne has a much taller and more defined CBD than Sydney, and I'd choose that city over Sydney as a place to live. But, it's the small things that Melbourne does better in it's CBD that I like: the small cafe lined laneways and random art that make it an enjoyable place to spend a few hours.
That's traditionally been the case, but recently Sydney has made a lot of progress with laneways. Over the last year or two, Kensington street and Spice alley has opened up, then there's Scotch Row at Barangaroo, and Steam Mills Lane is currently opening in stages. There's more planned over the next few years, such as the planned laneways within the Quay Quarter development, and the 'ADPG' block, which comprises of multiple mixed-use developments which will include a series of activated laneways. Then there's the pedestrianisation of the main street, George st, which is currently in progress. In short, the CBD is currently in the midst of a transformation - it's already changed a lot from 5 years ago, and 5 years down the line we'll see if it'll hold its own against Melbourne in terms of laneways.
But I agree that Melbourne's CBD is more artsy, Sydney's is more business like. Where the art scene in Sydney is, it's in the neighbourhoods.
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Originally Posted by cavsfan137
Speaking to urbanity, at least the site that statistically measures such things would indicate that Toronto has a larger urban fabric, at least. It has a WalkScore rating overall of 71, with 322K people living in neighborhoods with a rating exceeding 90. Sydney's overall WalkScore rating is a 63, and it only has 195K people living in neighborhoods with a rating exceeding 90. Interestingly though, countering recent perceptions, and while it is only one indicator, Sydney ranks higher on this scale than does Melbourne. It may be wrong too, I'm not sure exactly which city has more impressive architecture or historical landmarks, and I don't think there's a huge disparity between either here, but that said, Toronto did seem more preserved to me as a whole than Sydney did. Perhaps there's reason for that. Taking a look at the population of the two cities in 1901, Toronto's was 238,000 and Sydney's was 112,000 (suburbs/metro reflect perhaps a closer differential, but still with Toronto larger).
With WalkScore there's a catch though - Only the city propers are measured with the North American cities, whereas the Australian cities have the whole metros measured.
What's more is that the urban structure of Sydney is somewhat different to most North American cities, and that's something WalkScore will not be able to quantify.
I've repeated myself about this on this forum for more times than I can count, so I'll link one of my previous posts. In short, less reliance on strip malls, surface parking and auto-centric development, more of a focus on pedestrian-oriented main streets and 'town centres': http://www.city-data.com/forum/49944109-post5.html
When you're talking about urbanity, you have to keep in mind that inner Sydney and its CBD isn't half the story - there are literally dozens of urban cores of varying sizes spread everywhere around the metro. What's more is that most of Sydney's major shopping malls and commerical buildings are integrated right into these areas with active street frontages, so the larger of these feel like little downtowns of their own.
I'll encourage you to go on Google Maps and look around Sydney a bit. Since almost all of these areas are built right around a transit hub, a good starting point will be to follow the train lines, and you'll find that at most train stations there'll be a main street or a 'downtown' of some sort built right around it. Parramatta, Hurstville, the Strathfield-Burwood-Ashfield area, Auburn, Campsie, Eastwood, Bondi Junction, the areas in the vids in the link above, etc etc.
In fact, I'll challenge you to find another metro in North America relative to its size, with as many walkable areas around the suburbs, linked by transit, as Sydney does
Melbourne is somewhat similar but to a lesser extent in this regard. Its metro area as a whole is a little less dense than Sydney, so that might explain the WalkScore.
Sydney's more of a decentralised metro, and those dozens of such areas add up to something quite substantial. So if you're comparing it Toronto here for example, you'd have to keep that in mind.
Last edited by ciTydude123; 06-01-2018 at 10:16 AM..
I thought Sydney was more sterile and banal and I thought that was more a Melbourne thing.
Street art adds colour, but there's probably more that counts as character. Here's an area in Sydney called Newtown. Supposed to be the hipster, counterculture area where (wannabe) wierdos and eccentrics go about their business.
Melbourne's equivalent is Fitzroy, but while it has the street art and its share of interesting stores I find it doesn't really match Newtown's energy and pulse, and just the general street activity. Maybe that's just my bias. Melbourne's Chapel Street though, is a real gem.
Then there was Kings Cross, where the nightlife was... a little crazy... until the government stepped in. Lockout laws were introduced a few years back, supposed to cure the 'violence', but in fact has destroyed the nightlife in the area. Result is that some of the nightlife has moved over to Newtown, but not to the scale we saw at Kings Cross.
Anyways here's a vid and a picture thread of Kings Cross and the southern CBD area before the lockouts, for what it's worth.
It's interesting that Melbourne has a much taller and more defined CBD than Sydney, and I'd choose that city over Sydney as a place to live. But, it's the small things that Melbourne does better in it's CBD that I like: the small cafe lined laneways and random art that make it an enjoyable place to spend a few hours.
Oh yeah, look at my city, it's cooler than yours because we got more laneways, graffitis and cafes and we pretend to be European"...when in reality Melbourne is full of bogans, they are obsessed with Sydney and they have lately some issues with African gangs.
It's interesting that Melbourne has a much taller and more defined CBD than Sydney, and I'd choose that city over Sydney as a place to live. But, it's the small things that Melbourne does better in it's CBD that I like: the small cafe lined laneways and random art that make it an enjoyable place to spend a few hours.
Oh yeah, look at my city, it's cooler than yours because we got more laneways, graffitis and cafes and we pretend to be European"...when in reality Melbourne is full of bogans, they are obsessed with Sydney and they have lately some issues with African gangs.
Also, Montreal is actually booming right now and doing well. It has a low unemployment rate - a burgeoning tech industry and is quite simply doing very well for itself and I am happy for it. So again, nice try but not gonna work..
Anyway no you didn't mention Madrid and you should - as much as I love BCN - Madrid is just on another level in so many ways.
Madrid is being subsidized by Barcelona...Madrid as the capital takes all the money from Catalania and invests it in Madrid..not fair. After 100 years + of getting money from Barcelona, no surprise that Madrid is doing well. It's not Madrid achievement, it's the result of hard-working and lovely Catalans. All in which Madrid ever succeeded was just colonizing and suppressing other territories in Europe and Latin America, that's the only domain in which it takes the crown. For me, Barcelona is the best Southern European city.
Demande-lui si elle vient d'un pays francotrope ou de l'Inde ou un autre pays asiatique.
Ask her (or him) whether she is from India, China, another Asian country or from a francotrope country!
Returning to the topic's main question, I voted for Sydney. The question was, which is the most attractive city for a vacation and I voted for Sydney. If there was Barcelona, I would have voted for belle Barcelona.
The nominal per cap GDP in Australia is greater than Canada by a significant amount. The Per Capita GDP PPP which is more relevant to people on the ground is much closer. Australia is about 1500 USD more per cap GDP in PPP terms than Canada. It certainly is better, just not significant enough to make a big difference in QOL. Healthcare, I wouldn't be surprised - we have some ongoing issues to sort out in Canada. That said, the life expectancy of Australians vs Canadians is essentially the same. So again, how all this translates to people on the ground in either country is probably not that great. Canada also has a fair sized greater population. 36million vs 23million. If Australia was 36 million I think things would skew even closer to Canadian numbers.
In 2009 every one of the estimated 9 million Australian workers earning $100k or less received $950 as part of the Australian government stimulus package that helped prevent a recession
Toronto in the winter around February is a disaster, 0C will (if you are lucky) be the highest temperature, and this could go as bad as -30C. Winter lasts so long (5-6 months) Canadians skip spring, and autumn goes by so quick....When the snow gets dirty, the city looks like an After-War zone. The public transport in Toronto is a mess around this time of the year too. TTC always has delays and cancellations.
Last edited by usuariodeldia; 06-01-2018 at 12:20 PM..
Demande-lui si elle vient d'un pays francotrope ou de l'Inde ou un autre pays asiatique.
Ask her (or him) whether she is from India, China, another Asian country or from a francotrope country!
Returning to the topic's main question, I voted for Sydney. The question was, which is the most attractive city for a vacation and I voted for Sydney. If there was Barcelona, I would have voted for belle Barcelona.
je ne suis pas
Anyway....
Some unique places in Sydney that I love and tourists rarely know about it
lots of hidden amazing things in "neighbourhoods" like Balmain, Glebe, Mosman, The Rocks. They all feel like a village and have many cool things to explore. The suburbs have authentic Asian, Lebanese, Portuguese, Italian food...
You are welcome
Last edited by usuariodeldia; 06-01-2018 at 12:35 PM..
Toronto in the winter around February is a disaster, 0C will (if you are lucky) be the highest temperature, and this could go as bad as -30C. Winter lasts so long (5-6 months) Canadians skip spring, and autumn goes by so quick....When the snow gets dirty, the city looks like an After-War zone. The public transport in Toronto is a mess around this time of the year too. TTC always has delays and cancellations.
yes, because we have an OQLF approved theory that believes that Indians, Chinese, Korean and South Asians generally don't bother to learn French, whereas Latin Americans, Africans and other francotrope countries do show interest
So, usuario, could you reveal us how you learnt French, did you tak the free courses offered by the Q government?
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