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View Poll Results: Where would you rather vacation?
Madrid 36 51.43%
Milan 7 10.00%
Toronto 9 12.86%
Sydney 18 25.71%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-30-2018, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 9,935,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usuariodeldia View Post
Well, I find pretty interesting that it is a bilingual city, not many cities like that in the world. You would struggle a lot in Toronto if you were from Quebec and only speak French. I never said it was urbaner, can't compare Ottawa with a population of 1.2 million to Toronto with 6 million. I was just talking from a visitor perspective as we are debating which place to visit between Madrid, Milan, Toronto or Sydney. I just think that other Canadian cities (Montreal, Quebec and Ottawa) have more to offer in terms of tourist sights than Toronto . But hey, Australian and New Zealander cities (Melbourne, Auckland) are quite similar to Toronto, so that's why maybe I didn't see any novelty at all.
Toronto is not a French city. Its an anglo city with loads of diversity and multiculturalism. If you are an enthusiast of French anything no, Toronto isn't your city lol. In Canada go to Montreal and QC or better yet, simply go to the French daddy - France lol.

As for Tourist attractions I will disagree with you. On paper anyway Toronto has more. The ROM to me is a much better museum than the Canadian museum of natural history. The ROM has way more breadth of artifacts. The Art Gallery of Ontario is probably the best art gallery in the country. Like it or lump it - there is no denying that Toronto is the most visited city in Canada - by a fair number but not all tourists are alike. Look at Cavsfan and look at yourself. Fact is, not every city does it for someone like others and i'm cool with that. In any event as I mentioned, Toronto is by a large margin the largest city in Canada (and in terms of urbanized area a fair size larger than Sydney - Tourists who want instant gratification would have an easier time in Ottawa.

As for Melbourne - I've heard a lot of people say it is more similar to Toronto than Sydney. I've heard a lot of people say they prefer Melbourne over Sydney too lol...

Last edited by fusion2; 05-30-2018 at 06:28 AM..
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Old 05-30-2018, 06:37 AM
 
96 posts, read 26,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Toronto is not a French city. Its an anglo city with loads of diversity and multiculturalism. If you are an enthusiast of French anything no, Toronto isn't your city lol. In Canada go to Montreal and QC or simply go to the French daddy - France lol.

As for Tourist attractions I will disagree with you. On paper anyway Toronto has more. The ROM to me is a much better museum than the Canadian museum of natural history. The ROM has way more breadth of artifacts. The Art Gallery of Ontario is probably the best art gallery in the country. Like it or lump it - there is no denying that Toronto is the most visited city in Canada - by a fair number but not all tourists are alike. Look at Cavsfan and look at yourself. Fact is, not every city does it for someone like others and i'm cool with that.

As for Melbourne - I've heard a lot of people say it is more similar to Toronto than Sydney. I've heard a lot of people say they prefer Melbourne over Sydney too lol...
Toronto is the most visited city because it is the largest and most recognised city in Canada. To be honest, I didn't know much about Montreal before going there, it is such an underrated city. Also, Pearson airport has more connections than any other airport in the country. Vancouver is on the other side so it is harder to visit.

What UNIQUE tourist attraction does Toronto have? Please, don't tell me that CN tower or its neighbourhoods? or its Times Square wannabe lol? Toronto's main attraction is being the largest city in an amazing country like Canada.

Hmm, Sydney is a different story. Melbourne and not many others cities in the world would ever beat Sydney's beauty, its harbour, its Taronga zoo, its 100 beaches, its botanical garden facing two amazing landmarks ( The Harbour Bridge, and The Opera House) - and neither our sunshine and mild weather of course!
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Old 05-30-2018, 06:50 AM
 
176 posts, read 169,215 times
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The harbour and beaches are kind of like a double edged sword for Sydney imo. It's a great asset, but it so often takes the focus of attention that it detracts from the other qualities of the city.

Take a look at all the marketing material about Sydney. "Visit Sydney for its beautiful harbour and beaches and the shiny Opera House!"... everything else is barely mentioned. It leads some to believe that Sydney is all about the Opera House, harbour, beaches, and nothing else... which is something those Melbournians down there love to capitalise on

Last edited by ciTydude123; 05-30-2018 at 07:00 AM..
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:13 AM
 
96 posts, read 26,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciTydude123 View Post
The harbour and beaches are kind of like a double edged sword for Sydney imo. It's a great asset, but it so often takes the focus of attention that it detracts from the other qualities of the city.

Take a look at all the marketing material about Sydney. "Visit Sydney for its beautiful harbour and beaches and the shiny Opera House!"... everything else is barely mentioned. It leads some to believe that Sydney is all about the Opera House, harbour, beaches, and nothing else... which is something those Melbournians down there love to capitalise on
Sydney is Australia's largest city, with lots of museums, bars, cool neighbourhoods, etc, etc too. Sydney has two major events that catch the attention of the country and I would say worldwide too: Sydney NYE fireworks and VIVID festival (which it is on right now). Sydney has terrible lockout laws that have damaged its nightlife but that is not something that will last forever, it will change eventually. Sydney used to be more alive than Melbourne and a party town so things change. Melbournians don't capitalise those things simply because they don't have any of that so they have to work harder to make their cities more interesting, charmer and blah blah...I do like Melbourne but again, I wouldn't travel 123939 km to go to Melbourne instead of Sydney. it doesn't have any wow factor, nor does Toronto. Period
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:54 AM
 
96 posts, read 26,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
CavsFan - I think the truth is perhaps not everyone who has been to Toronto has 'been' to Toronto. They aren't as struck by it as maybe you are because as a visitor - especially a casual one they didn't have the time or inclination to explore it like you did. You are an explorer I see and i'm the same way when I go to a city. I try to go to more than just the obvious tourist places and actually explore the city. Toronto is one of those places that may not reward you instantly on the surface but does if you actually get out and walk the streets of it and I mean the streets of Old Toronto. Than you start to unravel the layers and interesting urban/architectural juxtapositions the city has. Istanbul is another city that does this for me. The more I go there the more I find.
THIS! - I have met some people who have said the same thing and they really love living in TO! it is a city that someone has to experience by living rather than visiting.

If the weather wouldn't be so unhealthy for 5 months of the year I would give it a shot!
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:04 AM
 
176 posts, read 169,215 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by usuariodeldia View Post
I do like Melbourne but again, I wouldn't travel 123939 km to go to Melbourne instead of Sydney. it doesn't have any wow factor, nor does Toronto. Period
That kind of mentality is exactly what so often holds Sydney back. Our lack of competition within the region has made our politicians and bigwigs running this city terribly complacent sometimes. "Sydney is Australia's only global city!"... That's what you hear from them all the time.

Take a look at Google's recent efforts in establishing a new HQ in Sydney. They came up with a proposal to turn the disused rail yards at Redfern into a mixed use precinct with Google as the anchor tenant, creating 19,000 jobs... to be completely rejected by our state premier within a matter of months. Apparent reason was that our government thought Google wasn't offering them enough money.

Meanwhile in North America, Amazon's HQ2 has made a dozen or so cities literally beg Amazon to set up with them.

Then there was the Bob Carr era with his... "Sydney is full" statement. The result was that growth and investment was stifled for a decade, and had created an infrastructure and housing deficit that we're only now beginning to catch up on. At the same period over in Melbourne, its second city syndrome and how it always wants to one-up Sydney in some way has produced results. Melbourne has closed some of the gap on Sydney over the last 20 years... and that's in part thanks to Carr and his term in office.

Sure our harbour, landmarks and beaches are nice and we have a good international reputation, but sometimes I can't help but think that Sydney could be an ever better place, if we had some competition the way Melbourne, or Toronto does.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:17 AM
 
96 posts, read 26,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciTydude123 View Post
That kind of mentality is exactly what so often holds Sydney back. Our lack of competition within the region has made our politicians and bigwigs running this city terribly complacent sometimes. "Sydney is Australia's only global city!"... That's what you hear from them all the time.

Take a look at Google's recent efforts in establishing a new HQ in Sydney. They came up with a proposal to turn the disused rail yards at Redfern into a mixed use precinct with Google as the anchor tenant, creating 19,000 jobs... to be completely rejected by our state premier within a matter of months. Apparent reason was that our government thought Google wasn't offering them enough money.

Meanwhile in North America, Amazon's HQ2 has made a dozen or so cities literally beg Amazon to set up with them.

Then there was the Bob Carr era with his... "Sydney is full" statement. The result was that growth and investment was stifled for a decade, and had created an infrastructure and housing deficit that we're only now beginning to catch up on. At the same period over in Melbourne, its second city syndrome and how it always wants to one-up Sydney in some way has produced results. Melbourne has closed some of the gap on Sydney over the last 20 years... and that's in part thanks to Carr and his term in office.

Sure our harbour, landmarks and beaches are nice and we have a good international reputation, but sometimes I can't help but think that Sydney could be an ever better place, if we had some competition the way Melbourne, or Toronto does.
Hmm, I have been following the news about Google's new HQ. That wasn't the real reason why the Government knocked back the proposal near Redfern. The proposal was made by MIRVAC, which we all know it is a super rich developer wanting to make more and more money. The proposal wasn't accepted because it didn't fit the government plans to make a tech/education park, Mirvac's proposal was, OF COURSE, focused on building a ****load of apartments for millionaires, and Google is not going anywhere else, this was said by the director to Sydney Morning Herald.

"the company has nearly 1,400 well paid staff in Sydney, including expats, who were sold on the idea of working in Sydney for a while, hard-to-recruit engineers and sales people who service media agencies and big brands based in...Sydney.


https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...09-p4zebo.html

And sure! Amazon will bring a lot of jobs to the city they choose ...but those jobs are mainly for skilled people with high salaries THAT will RAISE the living cost too!. Look at San Francisco! it is not all happiness when all those rich tech companies bring gentrification and the gap between rich and poor people gets worse. Sydney is already a very expensive city, and I think it is a good thing that Melbourne will take over Sydney as the largest city in the country by 2040 as its expected.

The housing crisis has not really much to do with the lack of investment by the government or because there was a deficit. The Howard Government introduced the capital gains tax 50% discount on investment properties in 1999. This fuelled the speculative 'investments' that have led us to where we are now (There are also other contributing factors).

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/201...y-speculation/

Melbourne has many issues too! I lived there in 2014, I wouldn't consider it as the most liveable city at all. When they have big storms the city is a chaos, you don't see that to happen in Sydney. They even don't have an airport link yet!! and St Kilda is still a mess. There are not frequent buses around the city, their trams break down sometimes.

I think once the new light rail and metro start working Sydney will reinvent itself. I wouldn't see Melbourne nor Toronto as examples to follow. Sydney needs to look at other cities to tackle its mains problems such as mediocre nightlife, lack of housing affordability, rules for everything (nanny state). London, Montreal, Copenhagen can give a lesson to Sydney in some of those things I mentioned! - Also, Sydney has a very complicated topography, it's harder to plan when there is water everywhere.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:48 AM
 
176 posts, read 169,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usuariodeldia View Post
Hmm, I have been following the news about Google's new HQ. That wasn't the real reason why the Government knocked back the proposal near Redfern. The proposal was made by MIRVAC, which we all know it is a super rich developer wanting to make more and more money. The proposal wasn't accepted because it didn't fit the government plans to make a tech/education park, Mirvac's proposal was, OF COURSE, focused on building a ****load of apartments for millionaires, and Google is not going anywhere else, this was said by the director to Sydney Morning Herald.

"the company has nearly 1,400 well paid staff in Sydney, including expats, who were sold on the idea of working in Sydney for a while, hard-to-recruit engineers and sales people who service media agencies and big brands based in...Sydney.


https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...09-p4zebo.html
You haven't seen the exact details of the proposal, so you're not in any position to make presumptions about it based on nothing but your personal perceptions of a company.

My issue wasn't what the proposal was, it was the attitude of the government. They just straight out rejected a major company with a potential 19,000 jobs without offering any alternatives. Google has already had 2 failed recent attempts (the other being the Bays Precinct which the government tried to sell but Google thought there wasn't enough transport links). Either from what we've heard Google still decided to stick in Sydney, even after 2 failed attempts, so if that's the case it's a relief.

Either way I'm not here to boost any city or anything so feel free to think whatever you want to

Last edited by ciTydude123; 05-30-2018 at 09:58 AM..
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Old 05-30-2018, 02:24 PM
 
816 posts, read 470,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciTydude123 View Post
That kind of mentality is exactly what so often holds Sydney back. Our lack of competition within the region has made our politicians and bigwigs running this city terribly complacent sometimes. "Sydney is Australia's only global city!"... That's what you hear from them all the time.
.
Lack of competition????? A lot of folk from Sydney don’t seem to realize they have competition. Melbourne is growing at a faster rate, cities like Brisbane and Adelaide have industries that Sydney and NSW lack, and Queensland’s tourism industry offers international and domestic visitors a lot more than does Sydney’s. Add to that better lifestyles and more affordable housing offered by other cities.

Last edited by Bakery Hill; 05-30-2018 at 02:58 PM..
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Old 05-30-2018, 03:06 PM
 
176 posts, read 169,215 times
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It's the perceived status of Sydney within Australia and/or the region.

Mind you, with all the talk about Melbourne's population growth Sydney still dominates the country when it comes to the economy... and is growing faster than Melbourne's as well. Sydney accounts for almost half of Australia's economic growth.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...04-gzyj04.html
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