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I guess it should be time to put an end to discussion on such an useless science and leave it to researchers to find the treatment to those illnesses related to genetics.
Because aside from that, i doubt most people even care about what haplogroup they are part of or which percentage of Europeans are blonde or red haired or if Southern Italians should be classified in the same group as Swedes, ecc.
This obsession for genetics (which i noticed especially amongst Americans) are a remnant of a racist and discriminatory past. In fact, i have never seen anyone here in Italy that's willing to trace his family tree further back than five generations or interested in seeing which percentage his African Subsaharian blood is. I hope this endless debate about it on World and Europe forums can finally come to an end
I guess it should be time to put an end to discussion on such an useless science and leave it to researchers to find the treatment to those illnesses related to genetics.
Because aside from that, i doubt most people even care about what haplogroup they are part of or which percentage of Europeans are blonde or red haired or if Southern Italians should be classified in the same group as Swedes, ecc.
This obsession for genetics (which i noticed especially amongst Americans) are a remnant of a racist and discriminatory past. In fact, i have never seen anyone here in Italy that's willing to trace his family tree further back than five generations or interested in seeing which percentage his African Subsaharian blood is. I hope this endless debate about it on World and Europe forums can finally come to an end
Does it not make sense to you why Americans would be more interested in such a thing? We don't have the whole "my family has been in the same town for 10 generations" thing that you guys have going for you over there. We are much more transient, and a far more diverse group of people than can even be imagined or explained.
Our "racist and discriminatory past" isn't the past. It's ongoing.
I just found out these things about myself (my sub-African %, and my haplogroup), and they weren't really near where I expected them to be, which I find interesting; now as for why that offends you so much, that I do not understand.
I guess it should be time to put an end to discussion on such an useless science and leave it to researchers to find the treatment to those illnesses related to genetics.
Because aside from that, i doubt most people even care about what haplogroup they are part of or which percentage of Europeans are blonde or red haired or if Southern Italians should be classified in the same group as Swedes, ecc.
This obsession for genetics (which i noticed especially amongst Americans) are a remnant of a racist and discriminatory past. In fact, i have never seen anyone here in Italy that's willing to trace his family tree further back than five generations or interested in seeing which percentage his African Subsaharian blood is.
A few thoughts.
For the vast majority certainly not racist come one that is an over genralization.
The percentages of bonde hair posts in Europeans that I frequently see on this forum are plain stupid.
Haplogroups are interesting if one wants to know the migration path that one's direct maternal or paternal ancestor has taken.
Genetics is certainly not a useless science I would like to know as much as I can about who my ancestors were.
I like to know how I connect genetically to global populations. Honestly I find many people of European ancestry are still uncomforable of the thought of having subSaharan African admixture and you can really see some people take some sort of stupid pride on(not being infected by it) by reading posts.
How can genetics be a useless science when populations that are closely related genetically often look and act so similar to one another?
For example, in the U.S., whites share lots of common traits with one another whether they are from the north, the south, the east or the west. Same thing with blacks, and also with Latinos.
If anything, I think that the study of genetics will become much more important in understanding human behavior and solving world problems.
I personally don't find genetics or taking genetics test useless. I have personally taken several tests and find the results interesting. It actually has helped me to understand more fully where I came from and my traits. And I don't think it will necessarily a remnant of a discriminatory or racist past. In fact, if people fully understand genetics, they will see that ultimately we are all related to each other. Of course, there was much branching out over thousands of years and differences in phenotypes, appearance have emerged. But, the root shows we are all ultimately related. And yes, you can also use it to find health risks, etc.
Does it not make sense to you why Americans would be more interested in such a thing? We don't have the whole "my family has been in the same town for 10 generations" thing that you guys have going for you over there. We are much more transient, and a far more diverse group of people than can even be imagined or explained.
Our "racist and discriminatory past" isn't the past. It's ongoing.
I just found out these things about myself (my sub-African %, and my haplogroup), and they weren't really near where I expected them to be, which I find interesting; now as for why that offends you so much, that I do not understand.
I understand why Americans are more interested.
But the premise is wrong. Many think of Europe as a living museum, where you can trace a certain trait to a certain region of a certain country. Europeans, like all others, have been very mobile, physical borders have existed for merely a couple of hundreds of years. People have moved due to erosion, work, natural disasters trade, wars, religious persecution, education, love you name it. The example "my family has been in the same town for 10 generations" is so extremely rare and true only for a tiny fraction of the population in some particular areas in Europe, mostly small Mediterranean islands. And probably even there was some pirates or wars where the enemy came raping every female villager under 70 and injected some fresh semen. Or snatched away to be sold as a slave or indentured servant somewhere completely else.
If half of Europe crossed the Atlantic Ocean to America, I hardly think that switching villages within a same country was really that hard. Do you?
Secondly, 90% of the gene 'debate' for example on C-D is pure pseudoscience. There has never been conducted any large-scale genetic studies regarding hair, skin or eye colour in Europe. Not domestically, not on an EU level. Some countries have some studies with very small target groups, mostly to get to know about the country's genetic makeup. Usually as a part of a larger medical study.
I repeat, nobody have never conducted a study to see if for example Dutch are more blonde than Belgians, and never will there.
Therefore, all these blonde maps or haplotype maps by area with defined borders are complete speculation, bogus and as credible as astrology or watching tea leaves. If there are no studies or scientific references - there's no source.
But you again have to understand that Europeans usually have quite a distaste for these gene 'debates'. For us the first thing which comes to mind of all this is nazi Germany and Auschwitz.
You want to find out about your ancestry and to find some kind of urheimat. Ok. We want nothing to do with blonde eye maps or genetic collections. We went trough that once, and never again.
To the level that collecting data on ethnicity and religion on a governmental level is illegal in every other European country but UK, Ireland and Russia. In Finland we know exactly how many inches of paved road we have, but not how many Muslims or Jews there are here.
But you again have to understand that Europeans usually have quite a distaste for these gene 'debates'. For us the first thing which comes to mind of all this is nazi Germany and Auschwitz.
That's the thing. The Nazis messed it up for everyone and made human genetics taboo pretty much everywhere it seems.
It might take another century for people to come back to their senses about the issue.
But the premise is wrong. Many think of Europe as a living museum, where you can trace a certain trait to a certain region of a certain country.
That's what we're taught. In primary and secondary school, we are generally taught that each European country is some sort of monolith, and that there is very little variation within borders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
Europeans, like all others, have been very mobile, physical borders have existed for merely a couple of hundreds of years. People have moved due to erosion, trade, wars, religious persecution, education, love you name it. The example "my family has been in the same town for 10 generations" is so extremely rare and true only for a tiny fraction of the population in some particular areas in Europe, mostly small Mediterranean islands. And probably even there was some pirates or wars where the enemy came raping every female villager under 70 and injected some fresh semen. Or snatched away to be sold as a slave or indentured servant somewhere completely else.
If half of Europe crossed the Atlantic Ocean to America, I hardly think that switching villages within a same country was really that hard. Do you?
No, I don't. However, it would be interesting to know what many Europeans' ancestries looked like just 150 years ago (not quite the 10 generations I mentioned). How many would be in the same country? Neighboring countries? This is not the case for many Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
Secondly, 90% of the gene 'debate' for example on C-D is pure pseudoscience. There has never been conducted any large-scale genetic studies regarding hair, skin or eye colour in Europe. Not domestically, not on an EU level. Some countries have some studies with very small target groups, mostly to get to know about the country's genetic makeup. Usually as a part of a larger genetical study.
Therefore, all these blonde maps or haplotype maps by area with defined borders are complete speculation, bogus and as credible as astrology or watching tea leaves. If there are no studies or scientific references - there's no source
I don't disagree. When I was reading about my haplotype, it was mostly about people who lived in the Bronze Age; even with the amount of information we have on people who lived at that time, we can't really "know" anything about them. We can only speculate, I took it for not much more than entertainment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
But you again have to understand that Europeans usually have quite a distaste for these gene 'debates'. For us the first thing which comes to mind of all this is nazi Germany and Auschwitz.
You want to find out about your ancestry and to find some kind of urheimat. We want nothing to do with blonde eye maps or genetic collections. We went trought that once, and never again.
We are just a people looking for an identity. We know virtually nothing about ourselves. We want a connection to a past, maybe even a culture to adhere to or justify, whatever those may be.
We are taught that the world is a rich place full of culture, and see our own culture as incredibly watered down, invented mostly by ourselves, but overall fairly plain and boring, and not particularly unique. The melting pot is an amalgam.
I grew up in a Mexican-American family in a Mexican-American neighborhood. But how Mexican-American am I, and am I even? These are the types of questions Americans want answered, because they flat out don't know.
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